Downton badge

[mk1]

Please post a link to the identical badge on the mk1 site

[RS6]

.

[foxy52]

can i play ??!!... i would say thats an original by the sharp lettering...the old one i have is a good un.. but its not original..(thicker and the lettering is more rounded).. there are loadsa top qual fakes.. i reckon the only way is by provenance of seeing a real downton car badged up since the 60s-early 70,s and then compare the one u own with what u see in the metal..? so to speak... but what do i know....

[mk1]

I would also say that the one above is what I recognise as a good one, all the usual signs.



Not identical to the one in AppK's post though.

I am not drawing any conclusions or making any claims about "originality" though, I am just saying that the two badges are NOT IDENTICAL.

M.

[m1cH1]

Hi there,

instead of starting a new topic, I´ve thought I ask this question in a related topic.... I hope this is okay this way?

Yesterday there was an rocker cover sold on ebay with an Downton badge fitted. (-> Link to it)
Can someone tell me if the Downton badge is genuine or a fake? I´d tend to think it´s probably a fake, because there is no evidence of any black lines and it looks a bit like someone artificially aged it with sandpaper?

Cheers, Mike

[rich@minispares.com]

Can someone tell me if the Downton badge is genuine or a fake?

look at the font - the letters are all wrong and touch each other.

its certainly not an original badge

[almondgreen]

fake

[mk1]

Fake / Repro.

The badge was of the type sold by Minispares at one time. It had been "aged" to make it look more authentic, but as Rich has siad the type face was all wrong.

[Ministwo]

Downton rocker cover badge.

[m1cH1]

Okay, thank you guys! That honed my skills in spotting a repro one a little bit...

(Upon closer inspection of the picture, especially the W in Downton seems very odd...)


@Ministwo: That are some nice engine bays with some nice details! Thank you for posting these pictures!

[Smiffy]

Original badges would have been pressed/stamped and not machined lie the silver lettered one above. Look at the edges of the letters, when there pressed/stamped, the edges are smooth......

[mk1]

The originals were screen printed & etched, not stamped or pressed.

[Smiffy]

The etching, is what they used to call the process, of making the plates to do the embossing mate.......

[rich@minispares.com]

The etching, is what they used to call the process, of making the plates to do the embossing mate.......

I think your using your specific old school printing industry terms when we are all laymen!

when it comes to stuff like this I (and I think most people on here) have always used the term 'stamping/embossing' to mean that stuff is run through a press to 'punch' the design into the medium used (i.e like the engine tags), where as etching suggests a chemical process of removing material (which is how the original Downton badges where made), they where never 'punched/stamped' out of a sheet.

I bet if you put your mind to it, you would actually be one of the very few people who could actually make an 'original' badge

[Smiffy]

LOL so basically your saying that these badges where printed, using ink and not hot embossed using enamel......

[rich@minispares.com]

LOL so basically your saying that these badges where printed, using ink and not hot embossed using enamel......

no, im attempting to say that they where NOT stamped out, they where printed/etched whatever by some printing process that didn't involve a metal stamping machine.

as far as I understand the process, the brass/copper sheet was printed, photo etched / acid etched to allow the chrome / nickel plate to adhere to the bits that they wanted it to, then it went through a process (be it print/paint/enamel) to get the colours on to the bits that where still brass/copper.

the raised 'shaped' part of the original Downton badge lettering was produced using a chemical process, not a male/female punching process.

this is one of those 'smiffy' circular arguments..........

[Smiffy]

LOL only offering the benefit of my experience within the printing industry bud. The photo etching your referring to was used to make printing plates.....
These would have been made with hot metal embossing, btw I aren't arguing I'm telling.......

[mk1]

The etching, is what they used to call the process, of making the plates to do the embossing mate.......

No it wasn't.

The image is screen printed onto the nickel / silver plated, brass / guilding metal sheet. It is allowed to dry & is then it's placed in a Ferric Chloride etcher to remove material from the exposed surface. The Ferric Chloride will etch away unwanted Nickel, silver & brass. The resulting depression is then filled with paint or enamel as needed.

If enamel is used then the substrate is Guilding metal, if it is paint then Brass is used as its cheaper. This is because enamel wont stick to brass, but it will stick to guilding metal.

I spent the first 5 years of my working life making etched metal badges, data & name plates. Amongst other stuff I made the data & name plates for the boring machines that cut the channel tunnel.

The process of making an etched brass name plate is similar to the process of making litho plates but the two are not interchangeable.

[Smiffy]

Mainly coz litho plate are washed out with water........