Appendix K and Class D

[YMJ]

I am pulling out of this thread before I get hurt!

[surfblue63]

If you look at my footage later this week where it was a straight race with other similar spec Minis, I think you will notice you don't need to spend the money

Understandably there seems to be aspiration towards the best kit , but I have to try and inspire the penniless peasants amongst us

Footage now posted in the Oulton Thread

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9184&start=80#p76655


or you can see how Tims budget power plant compares with likes of Lotus Cortinas and high stressed Imps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32ibVqr7Dlk

[vegar]

But still, try Get hold of a good Abarth engine for a 600, or some original parts for a Alfa GTAm or a good engine for an NSU TTS Minis are still easy and cheap to get parts for. So I don't buy that argument...

[PaulH]

I have to say I'm with rich and swift to a point on this, I have been modifying 12G940 heads for 10 years + now and nothing on earth compairs to the heart brake of grinding on a cylinder head for 25+ hours to suddenly brake into a pours spot and have to scrap a head. or far far worse to get it all machined up spend another 20 hours getting it setup on a race engine rolling road'ed and all the other pain ass work that has to be done. Then get it on track and bang a puff of smoke and a DNF. I agree tho it's hugely expensive for what it is tbh. Also I'm not with the crack about selling bare castings. I have bought bare castings from all the major suppliers down the years to modify to my spec no one has ever batted an eye lid. If I make a muck of a bare casting it's my own fault no reflection on the casting manufacture unless it is a production flaw !!

[Oldskoolbaby]

Great topic this. Pains me to see how expensive and out of control some of the modification are on these appK cars now. Would love to put my car amid them but there's no way I could afford to do it. If however the cars had to stick to period mods using identicle parts to those used of the time, I'd have half a chance. On the other hand, I love to see the racing and at the end of the day its all about bending the rules to make advantages so I respect why its gone that way over time.

Walking around Silverstone Classic last weekend, I noticed 1 or 2 cars running adjustable camber brackets. I presume these were class D cars? If so, how were they competing in the event as I thought it was for appK only?

[Astro]

what is about an ajustable chamber bracket in a group 5 period G1 Car? There may be not only F ones.

[YMJ]

Great topic this. Pains me to see how expensive and out of control some of the modification are on these appK cars now. Would love to put my car amid them but there's no way I could afford to do it. If however the cars had to stick to period mods using identicle parts to those used of the time, I'd have half a chance. On the other hand, I love to see the racing and at the end of the day its all about bending the rules to make advantages so I respect why its gone that way over time.

Walking around Silverstone Classic last weekend, I noticed 1 or 2 cars running adjustable camber brackets. I presume these were class D cars? If so, how were they competing in the event as I thought it was for appK only?

More than one or two - the problem is that if the Top Man is seen to do it, then it's "alright for the rest of us, innit", although when some competitiors were found to be using aluminium bodied-gas-filled shocks all hell broke loose and Top Man went bonkers!

By-the-way, going back to the modern castings debate.....it appears everybody is at it, even pre-War racing Astons nowadays use block and heads still warm from the foundry. And you can't tell me that money was no object in that period - nobody had a pot to piss in....even the toffs - the castings made today will be infinitely finer products than the originasl in every respect.

[rich@minispares.com]

By-the-way, going back to the modern castings debate.....it appears everybody is at it, even pre-War racing Astons nowadays use block and heads still warm from the foundry. And you can't tell me that money was no object in that period - nobody had a pot to piss in....even the toffs - the castings made today will be infinitely finer products than the originasl in every respect.

your pretty wrong with all of this, the pre-war cars are using new castings mainly because the 80 year old originals are just worn out from either use or damage. there is little or no performance advantage at all.

the biggest issues that they have are castings that are choked up with rock hard calcium deposits from water and cracks that have started either from heat cycles or frost damage.

'in period' there was probably more money floating about for racing then, as it was the persevere of the very wealthy, people like Tim Birkin, Dorothy Padgett etc literally spent millions of pounds paying for, and racing top end 1930's race cars, some of the fancy homologation specials that where created and built where amazing cars - Riley Sprites for example looked like a standard Riley but where virtually all magnesium castings (bar the block and head), they even ran magnesium clutch baskets....building special cars like this brought the whole company to its knees and bankruptcy.

ive got a book at home that details the factory preparation of the 'W.O' era racing Bentleys. the work that went into them was mind boggling - the book is full of very clear, detailed, black and white photos of the cars in bits - like the success of the minis in the 1960's its easy to see how and why they won just about everything.

I also doubt that the modern castings are that much better than those made by the 'high-end' manufacturers in period, Rolls Royce, for example where well known for their ability to produce complicated, thin walled quality castings, but of course they also had a rigorous testing procedure and any that didn't make the grade (as much as 20%) where simply scrapped off....

certainly the repro RR heads and blocks that are available now don't offer any performance advantage bar the fact that your winding the clock back to when the car was new, I suspect that the people making them enjoy a smaller scrappage rate by using modern casting & machining processes (which we do with the Arden head), but, in the main , they are simply trying to produce an economic product that allows the car to be used.

a few years ago me and my dad went to have a look at a derby Bentley that had its engine in bits, the owner had sent the car to a restoration shop to have the engine rebuilt, the garage had stripped it and blown his entire budget having the cracked head welded up and part machined. he had then run out of money and go the car back, the head was epically rubbish, it looked awful - when my dad asked the guy 'why didn't you just buy a new head' the guy just looked blankly at us and said 'what?, you can buy new heads.....'

a new head was (about) £5000, he had spent £2500 (from memory) having his part repaired.....

a very interesting subject!!!

[YMJ]

Rich, you're obviously "well up" on this subject, but a new build as I was describing went 4 sec quicker than the rest at Donington last month and the brown stuff is really starting to fly. Good thing I cannot afford to do this level of historic racing, although I'm still 4 secs off the pace in Minis!

[Pete]

It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to invest so much money to recast engine parts and not improve them whilst your at it. Are we suggesting that Swifty head castings are no advantage at all over an original 940 in terms of potential modification and performance? If they're exactly the same why do they sit forward on the block?

[YMJ]

One thing, apparently, that would not be an advantage is that they are significantly heavier than the OEM part.

[Astro]

One thing, apparently, that would not be an advantage is that they are significantly heavier than the OEM part.

Why? Ion always has the same weight. That means that there is a difference in shape.