Mk1 cooper s speedometer

[china]

I maybe looking to sell my Cooper s clock at the imm. I have been told it is quite rare and worth a few shilling however i don't know how rare it is or how many shillings i should expect.I have posted a few pics.I would appreciate as much advise and info as i can get.I think it is pre 1964,but Cooper s clocks are not my strongest point.

[mk1coopers]

From my limited knowledge I can see that it's running a voltage regulator, so it's won't be an early speedo case, plus it's got the later chrome face bezel, (rounded edge instead of 'sharp' edged, so perhaps it's the inner of one on the outer of another?, I'm sure that the experts will be along with more info soon , still a nice thing to have

[Simon776]

Yes, there has been a bit of mixing and matching going on there.

It is an early (pre September) inner for 3.765:1 final drive with standard (Cooper S) ratio gearbox. Probably from a 970 or 1071, not suitable for many 1275s.

Late Mk 1 (post September 1964) or Mk 2 & onwards casing

Mk 2 & onwards bezel.

The misaligned 3 means its probably had the mileage 'seasonally adjusted' at some point, other than that the face looks in nice condition.

[nick rogers]

Sell it to me and I will replace all the incorrect parts with the appropriate ones. I have early casings, sharp bezels, convex glass, non-stabilised fuel gauge etc.

[graham in aus]

Sell it to me and I will replace all the incorrect parts with the appropriate ones. I have early casings, sharp bezels, convex glass, non-stabilised fuel gauge etc.

Yes, sell it to Nick, then he can fix it up for me!

Simon, what inner should a July 64 1275S have? and what do you make of this one?



I think the numbers are SN 4417/00 1376

Or this similar one here:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201110700111 ... 1438.l2649

More mix n match? what about the two amber lights! ?

????

[nick rogers]

Confused ! My 120 dead does not have any orange warning lamps but my 120+ ones do.
Also there are many things wrong with the ebay setup for £3,500 (as well as the price). It has a round bezel, the gauges either side also do, the black pod is a mk2 type . Oddly enough it again has the 2 orange lamps.
To quote my friend Chuck Heleker "The more I know about Minis, the more I realise how little I know about Minis". Or something like that.
I think a July 1275 with 3.4 diff would be SN4479/22.
I would value Simon's opinion.

[graham in aus]

Yep, there's always something new in the Mini universe!

The one in my pic is here in Aus, we (the owner and I) suspect the centre has been changed and replaced with a more mundane unit (non S?) The outer we thought had been modded, but then I saw the other similar unit in the E-Bay ad.

Maybe when the changes that occurred in Sept 64 happened, they had some older outer rings from 120 (ending at 120) style speedos and they just modified them to use them up? The place where the amber light lenses are located are not 'recessed' like on a later unit, but looks to have been done very neatly professionally, maybe not by an Aussie 'bush engineer'!

I agree with you on the numbers for the 1275 speedo Nick, I looked at my heritage certificate and but it doesn't specify final drive ratio.

All info on the oddball speedo's welcome!

[surfblue63]

There's a list of SN numbers on the Somerford site which give the various models, years and final drive ratios for said pat number.

http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... page&id=83

[In the shed]

It is high time someone started re-producing 120 faced speedos.

I do not wish to deal with Mr Stickers as he is a snake.

[dklawson]

[quote="nick rogers"] To quote my friend Chuck Heleker "The more I know about Minis, the more I realise how little I know about Minis". Or something like that. [quote]

Yes, that sounds like Chuck's quote !

My car is a late June '64 -S but it was built for the Swiss market and was delivered with the 200 KPH speedometer. It has no amber jewels on its face and it has a dummy "black" jewel in the top position. I do not remember what its Turns/Kilometer number is (800 something?). I thought the equivalent TPM number for a car with 10" tires and 3.44 final drive was supposed to be 1280. What do your notes say Nick?

Regarding reproductions of the 120 MPH speedometer, there was a guy on ebay.co.uk (rareminibits) who was selling 120 MPH face decals for the Mini. I do not show he has any items currently for sale.

[In the shed]

I have had dealings with that chap and I have some utterly spitting vitriol regarding his character and business attitudes. In my estimation, he is probably a psychopath...Not a stabber, but a conner.

There are two born every minute, just in case one dies.

He taught me a lesson on ebay. NEVER EVER READ BETWEEN THE LINES. (Set of JA Pearce wheels which were totally f-ed)

People will hang themselves by interpreting the written word in a way which a normal person would interpret it. If you take it word for word, you might see that you are not getting what a reasonable person would expect to get.

Aka sharp practice.

I would never buy anything of any value from "anyone" without saying "this is a load of crap, how am I being misled/led into misleading myself?"

There was the case of the Mk2 998 cooper (freeads for about £600) which "someone" merged with a V5 and +60 970 engine into an ultra rare 970S. This then fetched a fortune. I said "hang on a sec, wasn't that a 998 cooper last week" and he said something along the lines of "the advert is what it is". (I do not have a copy of the conversation, but to the best of my knowledge it was along those lines).

[boxofbits]

Reading this thread it seems that the later speedo has the more rounded bezel?

I have a 120+ clock for a 1275s 1966, and suspect the bezel has been replaced with a pointed version. Does anyone have, or know where I can obtain the correct bezel and rubber seal?

Thanks

[Highnumbers]

Reading this thread it seems that the later speedo has the more rounded bezel?

I have a 120+ clock for a 1275s 1966, and suspect the bezel has been replaced with a pointed version. Does anyone have, or know where I can obtain the correct bezel and rubber seal?

Thanks

From what I understand (and from what I have on my '66 1275S), the pointed edge bezel is what you want on any Mk1 model. They were only rounded started with Mk2 onwards.

[china]

We could always do a swap, maybe.

[boxofbits]

Oh sounds like per chance I'm okay then.

Sorry China, would have swapped otherwise

[Vegard]

So what is this then???

[nick rogers]

Vegard, That's another 'bitsa'. The centre is from a 140 kph calibrated to 145.
Doug, the TPK is usually either 860 or 880 on ALL the KPH Mini speedos I have seen. Strange really as they must have fitted more than 2 final drive ratios.
Boxofbits: your bezel is correct for a mk1 car. I always have stock of new mk1 bezels if anyone needs one.

[dklawson]

Nick, are you sure about the 860 and 880 TPK numbers? Now that I am home I have checked my car and it is a 200 KPH Mk1 speedo set up for 10" tires and 3.44 final drive. Its TPK number is 800 (even). If I was right in my last post that 10" tires and a 3.44 FD = 1280 TPM, and there are 0.62 miles/Km, then 1280 x .62 = 793... pretty close to 800. 880 TPK would = 1416 TPM, 860 TPK would = 1384 TPM.

[nick rogers]

Doug, not at all sure about the tpk numbers. I have only had one genuine 200 (I found it in New Jersey) which I sold to Mini4ever. Unfortunately I can't remember the tpk number. I know that all kph speedos that I recall checking, whether mk1 or 2 , had 860 or 880.

[Spider]

I'm just right now going through the process of checking the calibration of a couple of speedos, not that I can do much with them if they are out, other then tweek the needle a little one way or the other!

Just to throw a couple more in to the mix on the TPM and TPK numbers. The Australian Made Mokes from about 74 on were fitted with UK made Smiths Speedos (Metric, 140 KPH), these cars are quoted in the factory manual as doing 16.00 mph / 25.6 kph per 1000 engine RPMs and the Cooper S of 3.44 final drive is quoted as 16.07 mph / 25.7 kph per 1000 engine RPMs, so in terms of overall final drive, wheel size and actually road speed, both are as close as it gets. Both of these were fitted with the same speedo drive gears in the gearbox (6 / 17 which I think is the same as most early UK cars).

The Speedos fitted to this range of Mokes was 800 TPK (turns per kilometre). I have seen another replacement speedo in recent times that is 780 TPK (Metric speedo).

Based on this dklawson, I'd say the speedo fitted to your Cooper S is right, but happy to be corrected.

edit> Forgot I had this! Here's a page from one of the ST Manuals which maybe of help;-



Sorry that it's not the best scan.

In case you are having trouble reading the formulas they are;-

MPH per 1000 (engine) RPM = 60 000 / axle ratio x wheel revs per mile

KPH per 1000 (engine) RPM = 96 560 / axle ratio x wheel revs per mile (not kilometres)

The table lists various Dunlop Tyres and their respective turns per mile at 30 mph.