RE-PRO RUBBER GAITERS

[nick rogers]

I now have the info back from my Japanese friend. The CV boots are 5800 yen plus tax and the rack boots are 4800 yen plus tax. These are the prices paid by Japanese Mini owners in Japan. This converts to £33.51 for a CV boot and £27.73 for a pair of rack boots. All plus p&p and VAT over here.
I think that Mark's comments are right and my first reaction back in 2007 was probably correct also. I doubt many over here would pay the price. Mine being a VAT registered business would mean adding 20% to the already high cost. However, if some enterprising individual wanted to deal directly and sell them here, I would be happy to send on details of my Japanese friend. Some of you will know him as he has visited the UK on many occasions, usually staying at my house.

[medwaybeat]

That's on par with the price of genuine Impreza CV boots from a main dealer, so not unreasonable imo. A genuine set of Subaru boots lasts for 100k miles and pattern ones less than a year!
I'm happy to pay for quality and fit once.

[mk1coopers]

Minispares have a higher quality boot listed on their site, perhaps Rich can advise on how well these last in comparision with the cheaper alternatives they do

[goff]

Read with interest the reply's so far regarding inferior rubber Gaiters/boots , What i would like to say is that the major retailers of mini parts in the UK are all selling these rubber products, Mab says buy from Somerfords/Minispares for better quality parts that fit properly not from the hear today gone tomorrow traders, I just looked up the prices for the rubber gaiter for the hand brake from the big retailers and they are around £2.00 each, So i would say that these parts are the same quality as the ones i bought from Mini Sport !!!, Do all these rubber components come from one manufacturer ,If so why don't the big top retailers tell the supplier in China to make quality rubber items only, If there is only one supplier making quality items then you can only buy quality items, As Mark said its a small market for these so i would not see any other company wanting to start producing them, BUT IT DOE'S NEED SORTING OUT. I hope the top retailers read this and come back with some answers about the QUALITY of certain items that they are selling and they KNOW THEY ARE SHITE
As Spider say's Australia have the same problem !!!

What do the Canadians/US buy or do the make there own ??????????

Just like to say that i would not have bought these parts if i had known the quality was rubbish ,I have been out of the restoration/car scene for donkeys years ,Just retired, bought a project 2 years ago and started it 1 year ago, did not know that some of the repro parts were proper rubbish and should not be sold , but learning fast,

I cleaned out Mam and Dads garage after they passed away and there were a few mini bits left from my days in the 70s , including a cv rubber gaiter for some reason that i saved , looked at it tonight , made by Hardy Spicer GKN, Its laid in the garage window facing east gets the sun in a morning ,Its still in perfect condition !
OK i have had my say on this , Lets hope the top players read it and take note !!!!!!!!

Regards

Goff

[Spider]

Do all these rubber components come from one manufacturer ,,,,,,,

I've purchased them from all the main players here (in Aust) and from the bigger trusted players in the UK and as best as I can determine, YES, they all come out of the same Indian (I'm pretty sure) factory.

I would love to name names, but I think that's against the forum rules and besides, rather than embarrass our suppliers (and have them relectant to do future business), I'd rather they took heed, realise that that the Mini Spare Parts game is now more about quality restorations rather than the cheap daily runabout that they once were. The suppliers too (or rather the one supplier who supplies the others) buy in considerable bulk and while the samples maybe have been checked for quality, it's pretty difficult for them to check each of the 10 000 that comes in in the next shipment.

When Rover were about to close their doors for good, they did ask Unipart to manufacture (or have manufactured) 10 years of spares parts, which are held by X-parts. Do the maths and you'll see where we are now at and why this sub-standard rubbish has been surfacing in recent years.

I also know - first hand - exactly what some of these substandard parts are costing to have made and the mark up frankly is embarassing (eg, CV joints are cost just under $8 USD ea and retail for around $50 USD ea, AP Brake Calipers are under $26 USD ea etc etc, though these items to date are still OK in terms of quality). Personally, I wouldn't mind so much if it was all OEM or better quality, but it's just not a patch on it, as has been re-told by others here.

[mk1]

"I would love to name names, but I think that's against the forum rules"

There has & will never be a rule about naming names as long as what you say id legal, decent, honest & truthful.

In fact I would far rather people named names more often as those "I bought a certain component for a certain un-named supplier" type threads really piss me off.

Come to think of it there aren't any written rules at all. Certainly not in the "General Chat" section anyway.

[mk1]

While I agree to some extent with what Spider is saying about quality, I don't honestly think it is as simple as he makes out.

First, the days of Mini spares companies ordering 10,000 of anything have more or less gone for ever, the quantities involved are MUCH smaller than that nowadays. And on the rare occasions that they do have to order huge quantities of stuff, a large proportion of it will be sitting on a shelf for a very long time.

Part of the problem is that the REAL quality manufacturers who were at one time OEM manufacturers are simply not interested in doing production runs small enough for our particular market segment. This FORCES the big parts retailers to look elsewhere. Add to this a situation where samples are ordered & tested & found to be good but when a production batch is made the quality has magically vanished. What is that retailer supposed to do? Scrap the lot at their own cost?

I am well aware that there are serious quality issues with some components nowadays, but I also doubt that there is a ready & sustainable market for CV boots at £30 a piece. Most punters will still go for the cheap shit copy & live with the fact that they may have to change them every 12 months.

Finally, I reckon it is really easy to sit here & knock the price & quality of the likes of Minispares, but the truth is that Minis are still amongst the cheapest classic cars that you can keep on the road or even restore, this is down to companies like them trying to maintain a supply of reasonable quality, reasonable price replacement parts for us to use. If you don't believe me, try buying an IMP & restoring that as quickly, easily & cheaply as you can a Min.

[Spider]

"I would love to name names, but I think that's against the forum rules"

There has & will never be a rule about naming names as long as what you say id legal, decent, honest & truthful.

In fact I would far rather people named names more often as those "I bought a certain component for a certain un-named supplier" type threads really piss me off.

Come to think of it there aren't any written rules at all. Certainly not in the "General Chat" section anyway.

OK, cheers for the clarity;-

Mini Spares would be No. 1 on the list, though don't get me wrong, I do spend quite a bit with them I do like their service, they are nearly always my first stop and I know these guys have manufactured a LOT of products and supply many of the other UK suppliers as well as all our local suppliers here in Aust., though not exclusively

Somerfords, who I know source considerable product from ^

Mini Sport same ^ but - speaking from experience and being honest - I have found them very unreliable and at times dishonest. They are now permenantly off my list.

Min-its - quite good to deal with, but have the same stock as everyone else.

There are also a few other UK suppliers I have had dealings with, they just don't spring to mind right now. I'll just add that I am rather cautious who I deal with when they are not local, though I am sure there are many many good suppliers and one has come to my attention only today whom I'll give a go (namely Nick Rogers).

<3rd edit> Mini Speed - I found the proucts they have manufactured to be what they say and certainly good quality, however I also found these guys to be dishonest in my last few dealing with them and so now, regretably, any trust I had for them ( on the business end) has now evaporated.

Swiftune - dead set Excellent to deal with and their bits are definitely top shelf.

MED - Very good to deal with (hough I've not done much with them) and again, great products.

I'll also mention KAD, though I haven't spent any money with them, I did do some conisidrable work with them a couple of years back and I found them straight down the line, I'd be quite confident that their products would also be top shelf <end 3rd edit>

Locally;-

Karcraft
MG heritage
Mini King
Mini Sport (who have NO association with Mini Sport in the UK)
Minisplus

Also, Mini Mainia in the US, who also seem to source much of their stock from Mini Spares.

<edit> MK1, you make some very good points and yes, I would agree with all of that, though I may have a winge about bits obtained vis Mini Spares, I am 100% understanding of their position. Also, in recent times having had direct contact with a few of their manufacturers, I do have a pretty good idea of the quantities of certain items that are ordered by them, not that I have gone 'snooping' for this sort of info, it's just 'handed out' quite litterally.

<2nd edit> For the record, I don't begrudge any business making a profit and that is necessary for any business to keep their doors open, after all that is what business is all about! I also don't and never will consider it a 'rip off' they they happen to be able to make 20% or 1000% mark up on anything they may sell, that is entirely their business to do that and I guess, charge what the market will withstand. And as you've pointed out, regardless of any mark-up, parts are still comparitively cheap for Minis and the range of parts available is HUGE. That in it's self is a fact to be honoured and held proud for sure.

What I do get cheesed off about is poor quality parts, especially in the knowledge that the margins allow for something considerably better and still allow the supplier to make a respectable, tidy profit.

[mk1]

All good comments Spider, I would only disagree with you re MED, I had one of my most unpleasant Mini based experiences at the hands of Steve Whitton of MED & would NEVER willingly have anything to do with that particular company ever again!

Re the original thread content. The quality issues re rubber components are particularly tricky for our suppliers as these deteriorate over time, & invariably "look" perfectly OK when they are delivered to them & in turn sold to us. I find it hard to imagine any QC test that could expose these issues at the point of delivery.

[rich@minispares.com]

the quality of modern rubber products is the bane of ours lives at work

the stuff just doesn't last, but of course the people supplying us (from all over) will always say the stuff is perfect!

as it never shows up as a problem for months its always hard to sort out.

we are trying to source stuff that will last, but as with anything with minis its difficult to justify a product that's going to cost three or fours times more than an 'identical' looking product sold elsewhere.

[Bodge]

Oddly something I have been thinking of as well... this was a new boot about a year ago, bought it from m-parts :/

As a co-owner of M Parts, I thought I'd add to the conversation about all these poor quality rubber components.

Interestingly, the English Moke gear lever gaitor is not made in China bit is actually manufactured here in the UK and we source our stocks from the UK Moke Club. I was actually involved with the Moke Club Committee more than ten years ago when the decision was made to tool up for it again. The gaitor had been unavailable for many years and it was precisely because of the poor quality reproductions (we thought they may have come from Australia) that the Club decided to reproduce them. The tooling and production was undertaken by Harboro Rubber, who are a tier 1 automotive rubber supplier. Maybe the Moke Club have changed manufacturer.

I completely agree with Rich that the quality of rubber products is becoming a real issue. Even the reproduction rubber pedal rubbers need to be glued on or else they slip off.

But it isn't only rubber products where the quality has fallen off. There are many other examples of poor quality parts. Don't get me started on knuckle joints!

Chris - you have a PM

Roger

[mk1coopers]

So what's changed with the rubber compounds, is it a H&S thing where a chemical has been altered / removed / substituted, or is it just that that they are made to a price, I can't imagine that rubber trees have changed

[woodypup59]

Only tyres (and not all parts of them) are made from latex (rubber trees).

All engineering products are made from man-made polymers.

Whats changed is that the Chinese use an weak, inferior grade of EPDM (this is probably the rubber chemistry they use). They actually struggle to buy the top grades as they are made in Europe and attract large import duties.

To economise more, they shove in too much filler.

To hasten the process (saving electricity and time) they probably accelerate the process chemically with the attendant danger of reversion, where the curing continues at a slow rate after production and eventually the product crumbles to dust or turns to goo.

[mab01uk]

I wonder what price these 2-off Lotus rubber seals were??
(Quote: "We provide precision rubber components for clients in all industrial sectors, including aerospace, automotive, transport, manufacturing and food."

Design & Production of Quarter Light Rubber Seals
Brief:
We were asked to produced replacement quarter light window seals for a 1967 Lotus Elan undergoing extensive restoration.
Process:
With no existing drawings or press moulds available, we worked with the old rubber seal as a template and produced new drawings and tools to create the replacement parts.
Production:
This was a very limited requirement with just two seals produced – a right and left handed version for each side of the car.
The Lotus Elan project illustrates the typical requirements of this sector where classic vehicle components are generally manufactured to order, to very small quantities and with a lack of original drawings and tools for reference. We design and manufacture various rubber components for classic car restoration, working with classic bus restoration projects providing products such as seals and brake components and we manufactured rubber seals for the Peppercorn Class Locomotive ‘Tornado’ project – the first new steam loco manufactured in the UK for half a century. We understand the needs of the classic vehicle restorer and our flexible approach enables us to provide precision component solutions for all aspects of this specialist activity.
http://www.fairham.com/case-studies/classic-vehicles/

[Spider]

So what's changed with the rubber compounds

Good question and one I've been wondering about for some time now.

If other current OEM parts for other cars are still being fitted with Rubber parts (which they are) and these do appear to be of respectable quality, why can our Mini Rubbers be made the same way or for that matter, by the same companies? I respect that volumes may come in to play here.

I wonder what price these 2-off Lotus rubber seals were??
(Quote: "We provide precision rubber components for clients in all industrial sectors, including aerospace, automotive, transport, manufacturing and food."

Design & Production of Quarter Light Rubber Seals
Brief:
We were asked to produced replacement quarter light window seals for a 1967 Lotus Elan undergoing extensive restoration.
Process:
With no existing drawings or press moulds available, we worked with the old rubber seal as a template and produced new drawings and tools to create the replacement parts.
Production:
This was a very limited requirement with just two seals produced – a right and left handed version for each side of the car.
The Lotus Elan project illustrates the typical requirements of this sector where classic vehicle components are generally manufactured to order, to very small quantities and with a lack of original drawings and tools for reference. We design and manufacture various rubber components for classic car restoration, working with classic bus restoration projects providing products such as seals and brake components and we manufactured rubber seals for the Peppercorn Class Locomotive ‘Tornado’ project – the first new steam loco manufactured in the UK for half a century. We understand the needs of the classic vehicle restorer and our flexible approach enables us to provide precision component solutions for all aspects of this specialist activity.
http://www.fairham.com/case-studies/classic-vehicles/

Funny that you mention this as I have had similar done with some of our Mini Rubbers, only I have been able to give our local rubber man (who does actually produce the stuff locally!) new samples. He's only really geared up for small runs though.

[clm]

Chris - you have a PM

Roger

Thanks Roger,

Yeah, I am more surprised on how it failed with the rubber seeming to chunk out of the side, although I may have just over used the car it is my daily driver. I would have expected it to fail between the flutes as the shifter moves forward and back.. although being it is still using the original transmission and the shifter is a bit... loose? It may have exasperated the issue.

I am exceedingly happy with everything else I have gotten from M-Parts so far. Have plans for a replacement removeable grill front and rear panel and windscreen frame at a later date from them.

Chris

[mk1]

Just as an aside, I have a Somerford Domed gear lever gaiter in my Sprint, it's been in their 5 years now & it is as good as the day it was fitted.

[1071bob]

Just as an aside, I have a Somerford Domed gear lever gaiter in my Sprint, it's been in their 5 years now & it is as good as the day it was fitted.

Thats because they were made in the UK made by a squash ball manufacture apparently.....well thats what Pete Hines told me when I bought mine.

[mk1]

But it doesn't look anything like a squash ball

[GraemeC]

Maybe you've just never seen one of their squash balls!!