67 MkII super deluxe

[Ollie78]

That is exactly what I was hoping to hear, whacking things with hammers is the one thing I can do.
Thanks for the help mate, very reassuring

[Ollie78]

I got the body number cleaned up and welded on and tried to copy a few of the mkII front panel details over to the pattern panel.
Its frustrating... not getting a lot of time at the moment.

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[Ollie78]

A quick update on the progress of the MKII...... and a big thank you to Ian and Len at CLASSIC CAR REAPAIR AND RESTORATION...

I haven’t had a lot of time for the mini in the last few weeks but that gave me time to have a think about where I am with it all. I was never happy with how difficult it was to fit the inner wings in particular the off side. It just seemed such a bad fit and that got me to thinking something may have moved during the fitment.
I went down and spent a bit of time measuring up, the results were NOT GOOD at all, 1/4" missing somewhere.

According to my quick measurements it seemed as though the bulkhead had somehow sprung back on the drivers side when I removed the old panel. I needed to get to the bottom of this and thought the only way to be sure was to get the car on a jig so I booked it in with Ian Slarks company in Bristol, Classic Car Repair and Restoration.

Unfortunately my fears were confirmed on the jig, my shell being about shorter on one side between subframe mounting positions, I think this would have given a wheelbase about 1/4" shorter on the one side. This must have happened either sometime after removing the bracing, or (more probably) after removing the inner wing as I had it absolutely square during the fitting of the M-Machine floor. I thought it unnecessary at the time but I should have braced before cutting out the inner wing.
Luckily Ian and Len were able to get my car back into shape with the hydraulic ram, although, as I have a habit of adding hundreds of plug welds and stitch welding everything like an idiot the car was a bit stubborn and the inner wing had to be cut to allow the movement needed, I’ll have to re-weld it later this week.

It seemed my shell was all good, the only problem being the slight twist in the bulkhead. Ian explained to me there is a huge tolerance in these cars from new, one car being very different from the next and that was very reassuring but I wanted my shell to be as straight as possible.
I really owe the guys there a massive thank you as I wouldn't have been able to correct the bulkhead without major surgery. Ian and Len were very polite about my welding efforts, they put up with me (and my obsessing over getting the car as good as possible) all morning and I would thoroughly recommend paying them a visit if you have any concerns about the alignment of your car. I really enjoyed my time with them and will definitely be returning with my mini clubman... next time before I start stitch welding.

http://www.ccrr-restoration.co.uk/

Heres the pics

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[java gt]

Good to see you are happy with the shell now,it is my biggest worry when I start my MKI as there will be a huge amount of metal to be welded in.

[rich@minispares.com]

ian is a top guy, he has a lot of experience of tugging bent mini shells - mainly thanks to his brother neil racing mighty minis!!

[mk1]

Great update!

Glad everything is back on track.

M

[Ollie78]

Yes its always been my priority to have the mini square and true so initially I was quite upset when I realised something had moved. Thankfully Ian was able to sort it so I didn't have to completely remove the inner wing to get the cross member back out and all is good now.
Measuring the mini really accurately is quite tricky and the more I thought about it getting the shell on a jig seemed like the sensible thing to do for peace of mind. It would be really upsetting to find out after shiny paint that the car doesn't drive as it should.

Java, if your mk1 is anything like as rusty as mine was then its very possible or probable its no longer straight.
I could see my shell twist when I rolled it around. That coupled with the piss poor repairs the mini had endured during its years and the fact one mini's dimensions can differ from another so much... from new apparently, makes it highly unlikely I started with something that was any use for future reference. I couldn't even check mine properly before I started work as many of the reference points had disintegrated.
I've learnt a lot through doing this and I'd do a lot differently next time. My shell was a wobbly mess to start with so the amount of bracing I welded in was way over the top and a waste of time. If you weld up the floor and rear sub frame heel board in the correct position in relation to the furthermost rear sub frame mounts then get the heel board square, centred and true with the front sub frame tower mounts then the car should be good. Everything else is less important I think, how far you go on panel gaps is down to personal preference although I might just be saying that as I still haven't fitted the doors

[swifty]

Hi ollie . When I fit any floor pans or heal board to any mini restoration here's a simple tip . Just clamp and screw everything up without a single weld . Then drop a plum line from your shell and mark the garage floor in as many places as you can . Move the shell away and then you'll have a spot on plan that you can take diagonal measurements from . Any adjustments can then be made before you decide to weld . I also use this method after I fit the subframes , rear radius arms , front tie bars etc .... Simple and costs nothing . ... Ken

[Macker2]

[quote][ "I couldn't even check mine properly before I started work as many of the reference points had disintegrated.
I've learnt a lot through doing this and I'd do a lot differently next time. My shell was a wobbly mess to start with so the amount of bracing I welded in was way over the top and a waste of time. If you weld up the floor and rear sub frame heel board in the correct position in relation to the furthermost rear sub frame mounts then get the heel board square, centred and true with the front sub frame tower mounts then the car should be good. "

/quote]

I was thinking exactly the same thing about my own project. I think a spit that doesn't use the front subframe mounting holes would have been better for mine,as I could have had both rear and front subframes bolted in position, with the shell upside down and just bolt the new floor in between them.

[Ollie78]

Hi Ken
I did do all the plumb lining during the earlier stages, during floor and heel board fitment all was spot on with the diagonals and square. As an amateur I just assumed all would stay that way after welding up and regret not doing another thorough check after I cut out the inner wings. I just ploughed on welding everything with as many welds as I could fit in.
Like I mentioned I guess its possible it my have sprung a bit after I removed my bracing cage from inside the car?
I'm used to working with stone and when you cut or build something square it stays that way, at least it will for the remainder of my life.
Thanks for the advice, I'll be a bit more prepared next time round.

Macker2 I tried not to rely on the subframes for lining stuff up too much, I mean they have to fit but the rear is rubber mounted so theres a fair amount of give in the trunions. The non gen one I have is not 100%, it fits but there is no way I'd build my car around it. The front sub frame has about 1mm-2mm play (twist) on the tower bolts before nipping up and the rear legs that bolt to the toe board are, at least on all the ones I have owned, badly bent out of shape from the car being jacked up. The rear legs actually bend really easily and are a thinner grade than the rest of the frame.
I believe they are designed to fold up on impact, they do... my brother tried it unintentionally, the roof folds as in half as well if your inner and outer sill are made of filler.
Anyway, probably best to follow the advice of a professional like swifty and drop some accurate plumb line measurements.

Just out of interest I had a twin bolt subframe from a crashed car and had a go at straightening it. I built up a framework out of large blocks of stone trapping the subframe under about 6 tonnes and pulled it about with a forklift truck. I was shocked how little strength is in them, I drive a forklift most days so have a feel for the hydraulics and can normally guess roughly the weight on the forks. The subframe bent like a paper clip, no resistance at all.

[Ollie78]

When my car was down at classic car restoration Ian was telling me about the production tolerances of the minis he see's on his jig. Amongst other things they tend to vary in length between the rear mounts and heel board and the front mounts and tower bolt area for some reason, as much as 1/2" either way. I know it sounds shocking, you'd think they must have been built on a jig in the factory but this apparently applies eaqually to cars that have never been crashed or rebuilt. My shell is a bit short but Ian assured me that this is normal and nothing to worry about, at least its square, flat and straight now.