Works speedo identification / questions

[m1cH1]

Hi there,

I have some questions about the works-type speedometer. I hope I´ll be able to find some answers to those questions in here...
I know someone who has a speedo in his attic which description matches one of those works ones. I haven´t seen it yet, but I´ll have a closer look to it as soon as it has been dug out from there... I tried to do some research on those, but my research up to now has thrown up more questions than it answered...
So I put my questions in here because I think, here I have the best chance to find someone who could answer them...
(I slightly suspect that some of those question may be just answered with an anorak... )

• -Where they always 200kph or also sometimes 120mph? (Since not all the rallies have been on the continent...)
  
  -Odometer: Am I right with the following: The trip odometer should have the numbered 1/10ths wheel? But what´s about the normal odometer? Did they both have the 1/10ths wheels with numbers on, or just the trip? (Comparing with other period Smiths speedos, I reckon that they just have the numbered 1/10th wheel/decimal point in the trip odometer!?)
  -Did they also use speedos without trip odometers and just the normal odometer in the works cars?
  
  -Speedo centre: In the speedos with odometer and trip odometer, where the centers of those speedos of the striped variety as found on the regular MK1 speedos, or where they just of the MK1 type but painted flat black? (I ask because I have seen pictures of both variety and am not sure which was the way it genuinely should be.)
  I tend more to think that the striped centre like all other MK1 speedos have is correct, but what´s then about the chrome surrounding the centre? Stayed this chromed, or did they paint it flat black like the bezel? (As it could also dazzle the driver, if in chrome!?)
  
  -I have searched the web for quite some time now and haven´t really found pictures of original ones. There are some pictures out there, but you often can see at first glance, that they aren´t original ones (e.g. speedos with the green jewel at 12 o'clock (so not the proper face for the MK1 "S"-Speedos), or wrong casing, or other details pointing at a replica, so not really usable as a reference.)
  The pictures that are there of original works cars and their dashboard usually are too small to see any details of the speedometer.
  Does anybody in here have closeup photos of an original one?
  
  -Identification: Any particular numbers or clues one should pay attention to, if verifying if the speedo is a genuine one or a fake?
  -Which number should it have on the back? (If there has been one!?)
  -Which TPM number should it have?
  
  -As the bmc works speedos have been built pre ´68, they should have the earlier metal odometer works inside? Is this correct?

Best regards, Michael

[dklawson]

Hopefully Nick from Minibitz will post to your thread soon. I asked him similar questions a while back. I believe he sent me pictures of the dash for one of the cars on display at BMH. I don't think those pictures were detailed enough to answer your specific questions but perhaps Nick has more pictures or remembers the details.

[m1cH1]

Hi Doug,

yes I have read Nick´s name before in one or two threads about those speedos, so I suppose that there might be a post from him sooner or later. I´ll stayed tuned...

And your name appeared there also sometimes... I´m relatively sure to have seen some pictures of your replica of the works speedo somewhere. Looked quite good... (As the things you wrote about it did read... )

[mk1]

These are pretty specialist questions, you may wait a while for a comprehensive answer, but I know we have members who know most if not all your answers.

M

[SMOKE GREY]

I can explain about the speedos supplied to Abingdon !
Will just check some details when I get home tonight, before posting!:)

[nick rogers]

I can try to answer some of your questions and will try later to post a pic or two. I have in front of me a 120 dead with trip. The trip is 4 digits with tenths and the main odometer is 5 digits with no tenths. The trip is in the upper position and the main in the lower. This one has no SN number or TPM but those that do have SN numbers seem to begin with the number 6 rather than 4.
It seems that these speedos had a few alterations made when fitted by the Works. Firstly they seem to make use of clear plastic needles from Silver face units. This seems a bit unnecessary as you can easily see both odometers with the std. white needle. In addition, they had the outer chrome rim painted black to avoid reflections. (not sure about the inner chrome ring). They used the centre disc with concentric rings.
I seem to remember that 33EJB has a 100mph trip. I have a NOS one of those which I bought from my good friend Paul Lips a year before he was tragically killed. This one has its SN number which is 6404/02 and the TPM 1408 suggesting a 3.765 FD on cross plies.
My research has suggested that Smiths made all mk1 speedos available with a trip.
Hope this helps.
Nick.

[SMOKE GREY]

Back in the 1980's when my dad bought his ex-works car from Ireland we researched about the speedos, as the one that came with the car was quite special. Some photos and drawings by dad were sent off to Smiths who at that time had been bought out by Lucas. We received a very nice letter/certificate back from them The letter explained that we were lucky to send the letter when we did as everyone there at the time would have no idea about the speedos, apart from one chap who was on his last week before his retirement, and he was originally assigned to Smiths competitions department

The speedo was a 120 later type, the bezel was matt black but alloy, not painted over chrome, the glass was actually perspex, the wide needle was used he said because it was much steadier/better balanced than the 'thin' needle and didn't obscure the mileage readouts and that the speedos supplied to Abingdon NEVER had a SN number on the face. On the rear was a white strip of paper with a serial number typed in red ink , which he told us was from a batch of six MPH speedos supplied in May 1965 i think, the one we had was for CR gears and a 4.1 FD. He couldn't tell us which car it was originally for as the speedos were ordered in batches and moved from car to car as necessary , obviously the one we had was for British events, MPH, which fit in with the cars last works appearance on the Circuit of Ireland rally. He also told us it was very common for the Smiths Comps department to supply speedos for most cars with a trip, but customer ones always carried the SN number.

Interestingly about a year after we got the works car, i was given a speedo which was supposedly from 16BOJ, David Hiams Abingdon prepared 850, this was in its 59 type cardboard nacelle, had a matt black alloy bezel, concave perspex 'glass', wide needle, trip, and a 'sticky' bit on the back were the printed sticker would have been.

[dklawson]

Nick and Smoke,

Thanks for the information. I started making a replica Works speedometer based on a 1280 TPM speedometer from an MGB and a reset cable from a Triumph GT6. I got it 80% done and tabled the project. This thread gives me incentive to complete it in the near future.

[Spider]

As they did use a few different FD ratios, I would be sure tat they'd have Speedo TPM's to match those FDs fitted. They my have fitted speedo ratio changers in the cables, or on the backs of the Speedos, but I doubt it.

A good friend of mine says that they used the Speedo Centres destined for Jags to end up with the Odometer and Trip Meter in the Works Minis.

[dklawson]

In my case, I purposely chose the 1280 TPM value for my speedo copy to match the gearing and tire size on my Mini.

[m1cH1]

Very good answers! I think so far, they answered all of my questions...
Now just the pictures would still be very interesting...

Thank you all very much and especially Smoke Grey and Nick Rogers!

Greetings, Mike