Braided s/steel brake hoses / fittings.?

[InimiaD]

Are the "home made" type where olives and compression fittings / ends are used road legal.?
My take on it is that they are not and only the shop bought Goodridge / Aeroquip type are suitable for road use.
Is this the case.?

[ianh1968]

Are the "home made" type where olives and compression fittings / ends are used road legal.?
My take on it is that they are not and only the shop bought Goodridge / Aeroquip type are suitable for road use.
Is this the case.?

I have had compression types with olives etc made by Goodridge themselves in the past...

I do not know if they are technically "Road Legal" or not , but I have had these compression
type pipes on my cars for many years and no MOT tester has ever commented, other than
saying that they looked nice and must have cost a bit! In any case, I am wondering how
anybody would be able to tell if the pipes are shop bought or home made?

Goodridge are now shying away from making up pipes to order for the end user, so if you
want pipes made up you will need to find somewhere else, see this post:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6888

Merlin made up my latest pipes for pretty much the cost of the parts and postage only,
so I'd recommend them if you do not have all the bits already.

Ian

[InimiaD]

Thank you for the reply Ian.

Whilst googling yesterday the impression I had was, that the "crimped" end fittings as bought off the shelf were suitable for road use.
The compression fittings were only suitable for track/ race use.
I could of course ask my friendly MOT man and see what he thinks.

My main concern is, what would happen in the event (god forbid) of an accident and subsequent claims on insurance when non standard brake fittings are used. (worst case scenario).

[rich@minispares.com]

I cannot see that they wouldn't be road legal, we only changed to the crimped type at work because we got sick of customers taking them to bits and wanting to buy spare parts for them

[Spider]

Possibly not of much help here to the original question, but here in Australia, they have to have a tag on them with their ADR compliance number (ADR = Australian Design Rules), so not all hoses are legal for us.

It is possible (as many do) to fit and run with what every you want on your car (here at least) and it may or may not get picked up at Roadworthy Inspection time (which few states have in any case), however, were it can all come unstuck is if your car is involved in an accident, even if you were not technically at fault, you can be deemed to be so, if un-approved parts are fitted and therefore your car is not roadworthy.

[1071 S]

Just in case you ever need to know Spider... ADRs also quote Brit Standard Nos. (and MILSPECS, various Aero standards etc). The Goodridge items I have were certified to the BS so by definition are "ADR compliant"...

Unfortunately, being ADR compliant does not necessarily mean "legal" under State rego regs..

Cheers, Ian

[CooperTune]

I can't say about there but here in the US made up ones are not legal for street use. I have no idea what would happen in the event of an accident should they be discovered. I wonder the same about non DOT 10 inch tires here. Steve (CTR)

[Spider]

Just in case you ever need to know Spider... ADRs also quote Brit Standard Nos. (and MILSPECS, various Aero standards etc). The Goodridge items I have were certified to the BS so by definition are "ADR compliant"...

Unfortunately, being ADR compliant does not necessarily mean "legal" under State rego regs..

Cheers, Ian

Yeap, your quite right there that the ADRs do recognise noted International Standards, it would cost a bomb for cars here otherwise!

Are you able to expand a little on Unfortunately, being ADR compliant does not necessarily mean "legal" under State rego regs.?

[InimiaD]

Thank you for your replies guys.

I think I've found the definitive answer at last. Below is an extract taken from the MOT testers guide which confirms my initial thoughts.

"This inspection applies to all types of braking system.
Repairs to the pressure lines of hydraulic brake systems are unacceptable unless suitable connectors are used. Compression joints of a type using separate ferrules are not suitable."

[1071 S]

Just in case you ever need to know Spider... ADRs also quote Brit Standard Nos. (and MILSPECS, various Aero standards etc). The Goodridge items I have were certified to the BS so by definition are "ADR compliant"...

Unfortunately, being ADR compliant does not necessarily mean "legal" under State rego regs..

Cheers, Ian

Yeap, your quite right there that the ADRs do recognise noted International Standards, it would cost a bomb for cars here otherwise!

Are you able to expand a little on Unfortunately, being ADR compliant does not necessarily mean "legal" under State rego regs.?

Only that the Goodridge hoses I have are ADR compliant - however (at the time they were fitted - a "while" ago) NSW regs specifically prohibited the use of brake hoses with braided coverings for road use... (even these specifically "compliant" items...). I've been using them for 20 years - and have disclosed them to my insurer - it will be interesting if there's ever an issue...

Cheers, Ian

[Spider]

Only that the Goodridge hoses I have are ADR compliant - however (at the time they were fitted - a "while" ago) NSW regs specifically prohibited the use of brake hoses with braided coverings for road use... (even these specifically "compliant" items...). I've been using them for 20 years - and have disclosed them to my insurer - it will be interesting if there's ever an issue...

Cheers, Ian

Cheers for that.

I recall from long ago that braided hoses where not approved (in NSW and I think across Aust, except I think SA) as they (apparently) suffered in the whip-lash tests. It's only in more recent years that I have seen approved types becoming available.

[ianh1968]

"This inspection applies to all types of braking system.
*** R E P A I R S *** to the pressure lines of hydraulic brake systems
are unacceptable unless suitable connectors are used.

Compression joints of a type using separate ferrules are not suitable."

This does not appear to cover pipes that were built like this in the first instance...

That's how I would choose to interpret this anyway.

[InimiaD]

You are spot on there Ian.
The more I read that phrase the less I think it is definitive. It is a very grey area indeed which is compounding my decision whether or not to proceed with my original plan.
The more info I turn up during searches the water gets even more muddied.

[ianh1968]

You are spot on there Ian.
The more I read that phrase the less I think it is definitive. It is a very grey area indeed which is compounding my decision whether or not to proceed with my original plan.
The more info I turn up during searches the water gets even more muddied.

Maybe Rich could chip in here...

My original compression type pipes were from MiniSpares, SEN45, still sold.

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... 0to%20shop

As per the photo, the original hoses at least, were compression types, but as I wanted
stainless ends as well as the stainless braiding, so I had to go elsewhere...

Subsequent to the SEN45-style conversion, I replaced ALL hoses on one car with similar
compression type Goodridge pipes.

Anyhow, I am sure that a reputable company such as MiniSpares would not have been
selling non-legal brake pipes. As I said before, I have used these for many years and
have never had any problems with the MOT.

My car is also somewhat "modified", so my insurers are aware of the specification.
The brake hoses are declared, and again, the insurance company has not queried this
or made any stipulations as to the types allowed.

Ian

[monkeyjim]

Anyone confirm if sen45 hose set does have separate ferrules ?
If so and going by the Mot wording it would be a test failure . I would fail it under reason for rejection number 3 . Could not tell you how it would read on the failure sheet as i am not in work again till monday . Will have a look at that one if i get time whilst on the Mot computer.

So , no Mini spares should not be selling Se45 for road use if they have seperate ferrules.

If a vehicle is presented to me for test I test it based on the current test criteria . Test criteria changes throughout the year.
As for having no problems in previous Mots that could be because they have not been recognised as seperate ferrules or as stated , test criteria has recently changed .

I would recommend phoning VOSA direct if at all unsure on this or any other Mot issue.
You will get a definitive answer , dont rely on friends and forums to be right .

Just had a look at a company called K300 who are Goodridge dealers and they now list stainless fittings as extra cost options.

[mab01uk]

Is there any truth that braided hoses are not liked on 'road cars' because the flexi-hose inside cannot be easily checked at MOT for degradation over time unlike conventional hoses?

[rich@minispares.com]

Anyone confirm if sen45 hose set does have separate ferrules ?

So , no Mini spares should not be selling Se45 for road use if they have seperate ferrules.

all the braided brakes hoses sold by Minispares have the proper 'crimped' ends so they cannot be taken to bits.

they have been like this for at least ten years, I don't even think the SEN45 was ever produced with strippable ends as it was a later introduction to the braided hose selection.

[InimiaD]

I am awaiting a reply from VOSA regarding the hose end fittings.
As soon as I have that reply I'll post it up.

As an aside, my friendly MOT tester was unclear as to the definitive answer and agreed that the "repairs" bit was rather ambiguous as well.

[ianh1968]

I am awaiting a reply from VOSA regarding the hose end fittings.
As soon as I have that reply I'll post it up.

As an aside, my friendly MOT tester was unclear as to the definitive answer and agreed that the "repairs" bit was rather ambiguous as well.

... If you don't want to be stung by the hornets, don't poke the hornets' nest !



Keep "friendly" with your MOT tester and you should be OK...

[InimiaD]

After a month of waiting I think my question has been answered.
I initially emailed VOSA who said that it was up to the MOT tester to satisfy himself that the braking system was in good order and operated correctly.
As for the "legality" of the compression fittings on a road car they told me to contact the D f T for a more definitive answer to my query.

The D f T replied today and below is an extract from the reply.

"Thank you for your email dated 31 December to the Department for Transport, concerning brake hose lines. The correspondence has been forwarded to this division as we have policy responsibility for the technical standards on vehicles.

There is no law/legislation that prohibits the use of compression/ferrule fittings on braided brake lines. We recommend that you follow the manufacturer’s specifications when you are replacing fittings or consult the relevant ISO/British Standards for brake line couplings.

I hope this reply is helpful"

I'd better crack on and get those brake lines done, at last.