Rover shut down

[georgek]

Most of the blame must rest with management for not modifying production lines and improving the product making cars more reliable and rust free, the Japanese & Germans managed to do it, though it didn't help that strikes were a way of life at the time.

[Pete]

I dont think the latter Rover products were blighted by rust or unreliability issues , the problem was their model range started to look very out of date ! Had things worked out differently could the MINI have saved the company ? Would so many have bought them with a Rover badge on ? Would they have been any good ? We'll never know the answers but I'd suspect it's no.

[mab01uk]

I dont think the latter Rover products were blighted by rust or unreliability issues , the problem was their model range started to look very out of date ! Had things worked out differently could the MINI have saved the company ? Would so many have bought them with a Rover badge on ? Would they have been any good ? We'll never know the answers but I'd suspect it's no.

Also would Rover MINI's have sold as well in the USA which is now the biggest markets for MINI's ahead of UK.......bearing in mind BL/Rovers previous record there and the lack of an existing Dealer network in the USA? (The U.S. is now the largest market for the MINI, with 57,511 cars sold last year, followed by the U.K. with 50,428)
http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/01/09/ ... Podcast%29

In the New MINI 'history/development books it is said that once BMW knew the plan was changed and the MINI was now to be sold effectively as a BMW built small car rather than a Rover, there was a sudden quality upgrade implemented for the R50 MINI before launch in 2001.........although quite a few faults became apparent but were kept contained within the BMW Dealer network via the 5 year TLC servicing scheme.

New R50 MINI comes to Longbridge....


First R50 Body Built in 1999


Early R50 Built at Longbridge (Methods Build 1999)

New Rover MINI comes to Longbridge.
That was the Plan, although in the end it never happened........

The general BMW plan for the Rover Group was that Cowley, renamed Oxford would produce the large cars, with Longbridge, becoming Birmingham which would produce the small and medium.

Rover Birmingham (Longbridge) needed to undergo major restructuring to prepare for the launch of R50 (new Mini) in the year 2000. In order to create a world class manufacturing facility for the production of the new Mini, Rover needed to replace existing old buildings with new factories, designed to accommodate modern machinery and equipment.

More details of the original Factory development plans for R50 MINI production here:
Longbridge New Mini R50

MG opens its gates for factory tours:
"If you’ve ever fancied visiting Longbridge for a factory tour, now’s your opportunity. MG Motor UK is opening its gates for two-hour tours of the facility starting on 15 March. The tours take place every Thursday, start at 1.00pm, and last for approximately two hours."
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/2012/03 ... ory-tours/



John Cooper unveils the new MINI Cooper

[AMCO72]

Guys, I was really referring to the start of all this trade union nonsense in the car industry, and it started back in the late 50's at about the begining of the Mini launch, and continued through the next couple of decades at least. I mean we in NZ can only go on what we read in the paper, but most of the stoppages were for very minor and stupid things....in fact they were just excuses to go on strike. Why do you say that strikes were a way of life then, as if was ok. 'What about the workers'!! Mind you we had a similar situation here in NZ with the freezing workers and dock workers. They regularly went on strike at the busiest times of the year for maximum disruption. Then what do you know, we have English [pommy] union men infiltrating the NZ unions and stirring our boys up to bigger more destructive things. The big thing was that the infiltrators had 'the gift of the gab' so our lot were easily lead by persuasive and smooth talking chaps. Workers that go on strike nowdays are treading a very slippery path to the dole.....permanently.

[georgek]

The reason why the unions got away with holding companies and the British public to ransom, was that they bank-rolled the Labour party so they sat back and did nothing. The Tube drivers still have regular strikes and earn 60k because they hold Londoners to ransom every year, it can cost £4 to go one stop on the tube in London!!! it's about time the Conservative- Liberal government did something about it.

[mab01uk]

There was an interesting first hand account about working for British Leyland (1969 to 1980), back in the Jan/Feb 2010 issues of Miniworld magazine by Leslie Palmer, who in 1969 became BL's first non-clerical, salaried female employee aged 22 taken on as a graduate management trainee to investigate new methods of working.

In Part 1 she gave several examples of finding management not really knowing if cars such as Coopers or Healeys were actually making a loss and relates how she discovered the Mini 850 was being sold cheaper than the 1000cc even though for 2 or 3 years it had cost more to manufacture its engine because the volume point meant having them specifically engineered. Customers who bought the cars expected smaller to be cheaper but it wasn't the case............

She later needed the basic totals of cars produced and sold each week to make sales projections, etc. Before computerisation this was worked out by hand on a paper spreadsheet. What was built on plant versus what was out at the dealerships and what was sold proved impossible to find out as there was a discrepancy of at least 20% a month. No one knew exactly where all the cars were or how many there were. She found the guy responsible for the figures only to find this had been the case for 12 years! It seems every Friday night a man went out with a torch and wandered round the Longbridge plant counting cars. It turned out the cars were being moved around to make space for more, the paperwork stuck to windscreens/dashboards often got blown away and once lost mean't the now unidentified cars stood for months on end effectively lost in the system (or lack of one). She says that before 1969 the volumes of Minis, etc, produced were still small enough to keep control of with the old system but from 1969 until about 1978 the explosion in volume plus labour disputes, supplier disputes and lack of enough car parking, along with the workers holidays coinciding with the UK August registration suffix sales boom compounded the problems.

She goes on to say the Mini Coopers never made money due to the low volumes with high cost of many non-standard parts fitted and that the price premium made it less desirable as a new car but very popular as a secondhand model. The 1275GT replacement was however highly profitable due to mainly using standard parts but John Cooper would not compromise on this, she insists it was this rather than his £2 per car payment that caused the Coopers to be discontinued by BL. "There were huge arguments as the Cooper was a very popular model internally with staff, but the Cooper wasn't selling enough. The 1275GT made money the Cooper didn't."

Part 2 of the article starts with the work on the 9X the proposed Mini replacement. Asked about any dealings with 9X or Issigonis himself Leslie says, "We saw it from time to time. It never had much support internally. There wasn't money for it, budgets were tight and there wasn't room for it. His was an approach of what he thought the motor industry ought to be, as opposed to what it was. I don't think anybody thought it had legs. There was a bit of support from the emotional sense, but not in a commercial sense. I'd say he was being indulged rather than it was ever a valid project. That sounds dreadful but it's probably true. They put him out to grass, although he was still respected. I didn't meet him directly, I saw him give a lecture or two. The problem he had, or the problem we had with him, was his unwillingness to ever engage with commercialisation. He would only ever do what he wanted to do and he was quite difficult in that sense."

She goes on to describe the discord and discontent with the 'Red Robbo' wildcat strikes, lack of secret workers ballots and abuse of power by both unions and management in the 1970's.

Also the issue of organised stealing from plants is covered. "There was actually a price list of parts for every car that was produced in Longbridge that anybody could buy at a discount. It was eventually traced to a man with a garage better stocked out than our stores. The filching was co-ordinated, it had to be, it had to be done in collaboration with so many people in production control or the stores."

The article concludes with descriptions of the sexism rife amongst workers and management at the time, the class driven divisive structures - there were four different levels of dining room/canteens (Directors included free bar) - and details some of the problems with the old, inherited tired and inefficient dealer network, also gives some interesting background on the launch of the very popular and successful 1979 Mini 20th Anniversary Special, why the Mini kept getting reprieved and finally the 1980 launch of the Metro after which she left Leyland to work elsewhere in market research for the Motor Industry.

[AMCO72]

Yes, essential reading for all on this forum. Find it.

[miniminor]

Fascinating history, it's a wonder BMC / BLMC / Leyland / Rover etc lasted as long as it did and managed to make so many cars - still sad at it's demise!!

[mab01uk]

Just read this interesting new book on BL which "concentrates on the period in time when our nationally owned car producer ‘enjoyed’ almost consistent decline".
British Leyland – Chronicle of a car crash 1968-1978


AROnline Review:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/blogs/b ... car-crash/

[foxy52]

I'm not sure the unions were responsible for Rover designing cars that people didn't want to buy.

...thats the point pete,the demise of the mass produced british designed and built cars was ostensibly because of poor design,performance...allegro,marina etc..etc?!! and thats just 2 examples from blmc and so on,.. we completely lost our way to say vw with the golf etc.......the union leadership was blamed for stoking the fires of discontent.. i,m sure the men/woman who lost their jobs would have rather been working unlike the feckless people in our society today can get by by living off the state.. our freind from the colonies eluded to that ??!!...the mini was a fab idea in terms of size and what u could get in it ??..never mind the power and speed produced by the cooper and s when it was further developed....in its time there was nothing like it and because so many were made it will be around forever....u only have to look at the vast array of mini clubs in the uk alone never mind europe.. even the french are keen !!! lol...foxy52

[ivor badger]

Best summed up by story of BL tractor plant. They are on strike, but driving up the road with a load of castings the radio says that strike is over. So drive to plant with the castings and very polite gentleman meets me at gate, but not in security uniform.
"The factories on strike"
"Thought it was over?"
"Yes, but this is a another one"
"You're not the usual security gate man?"
"No I'm a tractor designer, the gate man is on strike"
"Would you not be better off designing a better tractor?"
"Yes, but there is no one else to man the gate"
True story and that is why factory and company are no more.

[mab01uk]

Interesting discovery came to light last week on the MINI forums.....an R50/53 Rover MINI Prototype.

I have a Strange / 1 off Mini
Hi, all
Aquired this Mini shell today. It was a pre production Mini made by Rover. The glass has Rover on it. The headlights are very different. As far as I know this was a test car and was then stripped and sent to a company to test the door seals. It had a machine attached to the door which opened and closed it.
I have a Strange / 1 off Mini - MINI Cooper Forum - MINI2 Mini Cooper Forums

[mab01uk]

More pictures of what could be the oldest and only pre-production prototype Rover R50/53 MINI left in existence as recently discovered, since being dry-stored in 1999, unless of course you know different......spot the differences?

Note the shape of the side vent holes in the A panels with seperate round repeater holes, different headlights and added R53 bonnet bulge which all match the Rover Longbridge MINI prototype photos earlier in this thread.
Also has an early pre-production version of R53 Cooper S fuel cap.

MINI on ebay:
VERY RARE & COLLECTIBLE PRE PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE ROVER / BMW MINI ONLY 1 LEFT ?? | eBay

[rich@minispares.com]

that was on ebay a few months ago

I thought it would be fun to us it to reshell a rover cooper, after all, its a new rover mini shell isn't it..............

[Blue Mk2]

I was working at longbridge in 1997/8 and was asked if I wanted to look at one of the new minis in 'methods' building, It was very interesting and the spec list read from something out of a bmw 7 series options list!

you have to remember that the New MINI was a risk and a lot of people thought they'd never sell a 12k mini to anyone! 200,000 a year proved that wrong but at the time...

I seem to remember that early cars had the indicator repeater green light in the stalk , now where have I seen that before?

it quickly got deleted (shame) and just the alarm was on the other stalk , I think,

anyhow we built the first R53 s with battery in the boot etc and with hand mod'd bonnet as per photo above and by the following Wednesday there was a picture in Autocar !

there was also an R3 Rover 200 with 'S' running gear which used to fly around

what are your plans with it , I cant imagine there are any others and process is to scrap em , maybe they forgot about this one!

[mab01uk]

I was working at longbridge in 1997/8 and was asked if I wanted to look at one of the new minis in 'methods' building, It was very interesting and the spec list read from something out of a bmw 7 series options list!

you have to remember that the New MINI was a risk and a lot of people thought they'd never sell a 12k mini to anyone! 200,000 a year proved that wrong but at the time...

I seem to remember that early cars had the indicator repeater green light in the stalk , now where have I seen that before?

it quickly got deleted (shame) and just the alarm was on the other stalk , I think,

anyhow we built the first R53 s with battery in the boot etc and with hand mod'd bonnet as per photo above and by the following Wednesday there was a picture in Autocar !

there was also an R3 Rover 200 with 'S' running gear which used to fly around

what are your plans with it , I cant imagine there are any others and process is to scrap em , maybe they forgot about this one!

Thanks for your reply, would be very interested in any other stories or photos of the early R50/53 New MINI development and builds at Longbridge you may know of.....shame so many still think it was all developed in Germany. I don't own the above MINI prototype but it is currently for sale on ebay so hopefully will go to a good home and be preserved in some way for the future.

Some more photos of other similar 'Rover' MINI prototypes and testing below:

R53 MINI Cooper S Prototype photos






John Cooper pictured in August 1998 inside the secure viewing garden in the Rover Gaydon Design Centre with one of the first MINI Cooper prototypes to be completed.
Note the snap-action fuel filler cap - which would not be adopted on the production R50 MINI Cooper. Rover design was always unhappy about that deletion.......however a different but similar style fuel cap did appear later on the R53 MINI Cooper S launched in 2002.



The early Rover style snap-action fuel cap fitted on the recently discovered MINI prototype......

[nick@dunsdale]

very interesting and must be preserved !!

But what could anyone do with it ?? , it's one for a museum i think.

[northern monkey]

I could swear I heard Minisport had a load of stuff away, inc shells. I'll do some digging.

Hi Pete, I can say from personal experience that Minisport did buy lots of parts from rover ,they most certainly did have lorry loads of unfinished/part finished/ finished castings and forgings (clutch housings for example) this is a major reason as to why they invested so much money in state of the art Mazak machining centres and lathes, They also then employed some of my former workmates to programme and run them initially...so that the bare castings could be finished,and new lines manufactured,or old one re-manufactured.
They also used to rent from my old boss John Turkington a large part of the old Riley factory( snooker table manufacturer) across the road from Minisport (housing estate now) this space was crammed full of unregistered minis (R/H & L/H drive) purchased from dealers all over the world (lots ended up in America) they would even tailor the spec to suit the buyer by swapping interiors /wheels etc.(swapping of interiors often revealed a shocking lack of paint in lots of areas)They did indeed have a large quantity of new bare shells and painted shells stored in transport stillages (although it would be guess work to say if these did come from the line,
They had a very large storage unit in nearby Hapton that was also full of rover 75/45/and mini parts (I counted at least 20 brand new uninstalled engines with all ancills (as ready to fit on the line) they also had a lot (20 +) of uninstalled 1000cc engines in the same state (possibly used in the Chinese Moke's ?)
There were vast numbers of rover stillages full of trim , batteries ,subframe's , wheels , wiper motors , seals glass , rads , radios , cd player's , jack kits , tyres,shockers etc , literally everything from the manufacturing lines and storage to build minis and Rovers with......some of the components also came from the original manufacturers as they had been left with loads of parts on their hands.

Mick

[go ogle]

That is very interesting, particularly to hear it first hand.

M

[billycooper]

At the time of the demise I was a Parts Manager for a Rover wholesaler, a CD arrived shortly after the demise full of part numbers which we could buy for very little money., with up to 95% off !,the owner wasn't quite as convinced as I was that we could make a killing selling this stuff, that night I took the Cd home and a set of microfiche and reader and spent until the early hours of the night going through the mini stuff, among the stuff we bought was 1275 spi short motors, metro cranks, mini dashboards destined for the Japanese market, along with full carpet sets, alloy wheels, steering wheels, decals, badges, anything I was 'brave' enough to buy, all for a few pounds. I myself bought the equivalent of 35 grands worth of stuff at retail for a couple of grand, with a handling charge to the boss !, long gone now mind.

We moved through it very quickly through word of mouth and on ebay, the owner wishing we had bought a lot more, (and myself !') as one of the biggest wholesalers in the UK we had pretty much first chance of getting the stuff, even before the Mini centres.

Hindsight.. Wonderful thing