belt drive timing verses lightened duplex timing chains!???!

[chris-pilling]

hello, im in a bit of a dilemma. iv had to take my motor out due to a dicky new oil pump and im in two minds whether or not to change from the timing set up thats currently on. im running the piper vernier alloy duplex timing set up with out a tensioner, i also have a mini spares vernier belt drive kit.. Now i know a chain will out last a belt but thats not a problem to me as i like to keep my eye on things and my engine isnt intending on doing 20,000 miles.
So what would you guys use if you had the choice as i can make my mind up.. im still a little scared of the belt drive but you can really key in the timing...

any hints, pro's/cons etc would be great

cheers chris

[Lord Croker]

This is of course a personal opinion, but I prefer the chain, timing belts of any description scare me a lot! No matter how careful you are with inspecting them regularly, I always lack that extra bit of confidence I have with a chain. I suppose on the positive side, they are normally quieter than a chain.

[Smiffy]

I run the spares belt kit and it's been fine since 93. Changed the belt a couple of times, which you can get from from any belt/pulley 'Fenners' type place. The only thing I will say is there is always a small pool of oil at the bottom of the cover as the seal weeps slightly. But it's never been enough to worry about.

[chris-pilling]

can you remember if the seal you used had directional arrows? i'v been talking to a bloke who says he developed this belt conversion kit for the mini and he said there are some seals about that are not marked up with a directional arrow and they leak oil for fun? the ones i ordered from minispares dont have arrows on them pluss the crank oil seal is wrong? i shall have to give them a tinkle me thinks! does anybody else supply spares for them? This chap i was speaking too (Mark Huthert) has the geniune belts but no seals..

cheers for your insight

[Smiffy]

Seals don't have any arrows on them, Just checked my spares. The large seal (Minispares MSSK028) has the part numbers 'NAK S339 TC 70 90 10 3' around the outer rim.
Small seal (minispares 22G109) 'NAK TC 32 50 10 4'
Th Belt '547 Pirelli made by DAYCO ISORAN 052 R 190'.

[guru_1071]

Seals don't have any arrows on them, Just checked my spares. The large seal (Minispares MSSK028) has the part numbers 'NAK S339 TC 70 90 10 3' around the outer rim.
Small seal (minispares 22G109) 'NAK TC 32 50 10 4'
Th Belt '547 Pirelli made by DAYCO ISORAN 052 R 190'.

mssk028 - white indicator conversion kit

22g109 - primary gear rear bush

large belt seal = beltseal2

small belt seal = beltseal1

small belt seal for plastic case = beltseal3

[Smiffy]

Whoops must be in the wrong bags then lol

[austinisuseless]

Yes, drive belts are pants, like fly by wire toyota thottle peddles these days.

Chain cam drives will never fail, on the whole.

Vauxhall/Opels last twenty odd years, what a load of shite! Bent valve city.

[guru_1071]

Whoops must be in the wrong bags then lol

recycling old boy!

[Vegard]

A couple of years ago, this happened to me:





This 100% jammed tha cam solid resulting in this:



God knows what would have happened if I had used a chain......

[austinisuseless]

If you have a cambelt engine that is out of production, good luck!

At least the duplex camchain is like granite. Might float the camtiming when it wears, but won't jump its cogs like a frustrated girlieboy. bloody 'modern' engines.

[chris-pilling]

Yes, drive belts are pants, like fly by wire toyota thottle peddles these days.

Chain cam drives will never fail, on the whole.

Vauxhall/Opels last twenty odd years, what a load of shite! Bent valve city.

Drive belts are pants? thats why most modern cars use them..
You likening timing belts to toyota parts only makes me want to use them even more. I work in the trade and i never have to do any electrical problems with toyotas.. there bomb proof. If they had italian styling they would take over the car industry. If every car where a toyota id be out of a job and so would a HELL of a lot of people.
Ok, If a timing belts are not upto the job why would cosworth use them? and alot of them are also exposed! also the likes of duratec, zetec motors.. some of them are running hellish power. There is nothing wrong with a timing belt.. The beauty of a mini timing belt kit, well the one in question is that they dont even require a tensioner even less to go wrong.

No timing belt last 20 years, not even the new teflon coated types. I agree with you on that.. chain cam drives will fail i can tell you that for free.. ive done a fair few vauxhall 3 cylinder 1.2 engines.. there prity common! the main cause of belt failure these days is either going well over the recomended milage of the belt, or running the engine low on oil or even more to the point not servicing them very often with a oil service, the strainers in the sump fill with carbon and block the strainers and hey presto! seized cam shafts.. you try turning a seized cam shaft! that why a belt fails..

(lol) im not having a go but i think your a bit of topic!

[austinisuseless]

So I am a flat-earther chris-p. Drive belts, wot a load of ol' shhhh...

And I still buy vinyl albums. CDs? digital modern day total rubbish! Mobile phones? What are they good for when you have a already decent landline in the house that will never let you down, even in a nuclear war even.

[chris-pilling]

is this oxo? or the reincarnation off? because i bet you the back ground of my post is black and its definitely not white.. ha

[Vegard]

Drive belts are pants? thats why most modern cars use them..
You likening timing belts to toyota parts only makes me want to use them even more.

I sense a contradiction here. When did Toyota ever make a modern car??

Funnily enough BMW has quit using belts, Mercedes never have, albeit a few engine types...
I'd rather trust those Sausage eaters than the ricers.

[austinisuseless]

is this oxo? or the reincarnation off? because i bet you the back ground of my post is black and its definitely not white.. ha

ten out of ten chris, perfect guess.

Pity Vegard that there is not many 'roast beef' cars about now, but we do make the best Grand Prix cars in the world, even better now than those spaggetti eaters!

[atlanticdave]

As a mechanic for many years I have noticed more and more these days manufacturers going back to chains. However they still seem to have issues, but more to do with the quality of tensioner blades, they start breaking up,then the chain runs slack, which throws the timming marks out for the cam position sensor to pick up and the car wont start or mises like buggery.

Jag V8's,Ford,Vx Corsa,Nissan Almera's ..............I cant be bothered listing them all, my personal opinion of it on a mini is no!

Some things are best left as they are, well duplex it if you want to improve things. Also oil and rubber dont mix that well.

[InimiaD]

I used a Triger belt system as supplied by Mini Spares in the early 80s.
I was a bit sceptical at first and had that horrible feeling that something may go bang at any moment.
Needless to say, the system worked fine and I had no problems with it.
I did change the belt regularly even though there was no sign of any wear.
It was fitted to a nifty 1297 semi short stroke competing mainly onTarmac stages, so it had a very hard life.

[1071 S]

Count me as a fan of belts.... I fitted a Mspares adjustable unit back in 90. I do change the belt whenever the engine comes out (about 3 times in the last 20 years) and I must admit that oil and rubber don't seem to upset each other too much. None of the belts i've removed have ever shown the slightest degree of distress.....although, a fool (or oil) proof bottom seal would be a welcome development.

The belt in my Volvo (non interference engine lasted around 500, 000 km and looked VERY second hand, albeit still intact when finally changed.

Cheers, Ian