Electronic ignition

[Etienne B.]

Good evening chaps.
I was wondering whether some of you use electronic ignition and which type ?
I was tempted by the CSI one, but I was told by someone who tried it that he couldn't make the engine running smooth ??!!
Any experience anyone ?
Any alternative ?
Etienne

[Spider]

Funny you mention it. I have recently bought a CSI and I think it's pretty good. Very easy to install and set up. About my only complaint is the sheet with all the various curves is a little hard to see clearly. It is a little on the dear side too, I feel.

[almondgreen]

I have the 123 ignition tune and am very pleased.

[guru_1071]

i would say that the biggest advantage with the csi over the 123 is that the csi uses a normal lucas cap

the bosch cap on the 123 is very expensive to replace!!!

[youngres]

The CSI distributor not only uses a standard cap, the body is exactly the same as a standard one, so the appearance of the CSI under the bonnet is exactly the same as a standard distributor.

[almondgreen]

Is the CSI programable ?

[Tim]

I understand there is a programmable version of the CSI.

Tim

[youngres]

All CSI ditributors have 16 ignition curves built into them for you to select. There is another CSI ditributor available from Swiftune which has 16 of their curves programmed in for engines that are modified.

[Tim]

From the CSI website:

Custom:
For real specialists we offer an ignition in which to decide which curves you want to programm. You can download a programm from our internet site in which you can easily adjust the curves yourself. This will get the maximal performance from your car. Exclusive cars and cars with specially tuned engines where carburettors, camshafts and cylinder heads have been modified for increased power will benefit the most. As extra you can adjust a rev limiter. There is also an option from a switch on your dashboard you can choose from the different curves. Ideal for long distance rally’s when the fuel quality isn’t consistent.

Tim

[Etienne B.]

Thanks for your help chaps, sorry for my late answer.

I am still a bit hesitant, for two reasons :
- I know a MKII S which can not be properly tuned with a CSI - much to the disappointment of the owner - but I do not know what exact engine specifications it has,
- I am convinced by the theorical superiority of electronics for ignition, but why not then sticking with a proper distributor ?
If I am not wrong Swifty still uses points with his own race engines, or is it just a matter of regulations ?

Which old school distributor should I go for for a lightly tuned 1071S engine ??

I somewhat enlarge the topic, hope you do not mind.

[Frogeye61]

Seems to me there are only four general parameters for modifying an advance curve. Static timing, Total timing advance, RPM where the advance starts to come in and RPM where the maximum advance is achieved. There can also be a "middle point" with a specified advance and coincident RPM.
Not being able to tune a Cooper S engine if these parameters are achieved seems dubious. The standard (original) distributor should have the correct curve, and with a modified engine the curve needs consequent modification. I can in no way see why a CSI distributor should not be able to produce this "simple" curve.

Personally I use the standard distributor (on my Land Rover because the Sprite and Mini are not finished yet) with Luminition Optical ignition system. It performs beautifully, mostly because it's using the original distributor and therefore standard curve, and also because the engine is not modified. But it made a HUGE difference in both cold and hot starting.

Why not just use the original distributor, and an electronic conversion?

Edit:
There have been both good and bad things said about this one, but it is inexpensive and apparently works well.
http://www.paddockspares.com/etc5835k-d ... c-kit.html

[Spider]

Etienne B. sounds like your friend's Cooper S is not stock however I'm a little surprised to hear that the desired curve couldn't be found with a CSI. Did he get his from Swiftune? The models they have are different to those from Mini Spares with yet another range of curves better suited to modified engines. Maybe drop CSI an email?

Frogeye61, I don't disagree at all with what you've said, for the most part, however, what I've found with the fuels we have here since going to un-leaded about 10 years ago, while having the same RON as leaded fuels, they burn differently. On most engines, with CR up to about 9:1 and mild cams, it doesn't make that much of a difference, however with engines in a higher state of tune, I've found that generally, they need slightly less total advance (by only about 1 - 2 degrees) and it needs to come in a bit slower. I'd be interested to hear of others experience in this regards.

[Etienne B.]

Yes I was surprised as well. Should try a call to my friend to understand what happens.
Thank you for your advice by the way !!

[sdrdevries]

hi Etienne,

I am Rene from CSI-Ignition I already send you a PM a few weeks ago, please let your friend contact me, he can send us a e-mail info@csi-ignition.com. There must be something wrong. Normally the car must run smooth. Nick Swift doesn't drive his race car with a CSI because in appendix k it is forbidden to drive a electronic ignition.

Please let your friend contact me so that we can solve the problem.

Greetings from holland

Rene

[Etienne B.]

Hi René,
Thank you for your input - although I do not have your PM.
I will forward your address to my friend.
I don't see why a correctly engineered device should not work properly.
Regards,
Etienne

[sdrdevries]

hi Etienne,

Thanks, maybe there is something with the CSI wrong, I don't know. Or it can be the coil? If we don't know that he has a problem, we can't solve it. I will let you know what was wrong. It would be nice to have a happy customer.

Greetings Rene

[ianh1968]

i would say that the biggest advantage with the csi over the 123 is that the csi uses a normal lucas cap
the bosch cap on the 123 is very expensive to replace!!!

The Bosch caps may be dearer, but they are a much better fit/quality than the Lucas stuff, most
of which is very poorly made these days. You get what you pay for...

I have a 123/Tune and it is a fantastic piece of kit. My dyno operator was a bit sceptical at first,
but we agreed that he would sort the carb and work the dyno and I would fly the laptop.

He was very impressed at the speed of which I could change the curve. When I took the car in,
I had 32 degrees of timing. When I brought it back out again, the timing was at 36 degrees and
I had gained 6Bhp.

My only slight criticism is that although there is a temperature chip in the dizzy, there is no
associated mapping for it. The chip is only used to generate a temperature gauge on the laptop
dashboard display. It would be so much better if it could superimpose an extra layer of advance
based on this sensor.

Actually, I have two 123/Tunes, I just have not fitted the second one to the other car yet!

[ianh1968]

[quote="iIanh1968 the timing was at 36 degrees

Is this on a mini,how did you check it?[/quote]

Hello xvl24,

Yes, this is on a Mini, 1380cc ("Fast-Road/Rally" Spec)

When I installed the 123 I did make a zero degree curve and a 15 degree curve,
both of which I checked with strobe against the flywheel through the clutch cover
hole. The engine would start and tick over on zero degrees, but not rev past 2000.
The 15 degrees was probably a bit too much for starting, but as the engine was by
this time warm, it did do so OK.

Both the 32 and the 36 degrees were as created/reported by the distributor software.
I did not "check" this against an external source as there seemed to be no point!
(... and a bit difficult to do without a wind-back strobe.)

I started off with 'x' degrees and increased it until the power increases stopped:

28 degrees was a pre-dyno guess that gave me about 25MPG and poor performance.
32 was another pre-dyno guess which was much improved. (30+MPG)

34 Power increased,
36 Power increased,
37 Power decreased.

As I said before, the 4 degrees gave me 6Bhp, so on this particular engine much
potential was being lost purely because of retarded timing. I am now also averaging
about 33MPG.

NB: For the dyno session, I used 90% 97RON and 10% 95RON fuel to allow a slight
tolerance buffer against detonation . I run the engine on 97/98/99 octane, so the
curve should be safe as the engine was set up on fuel which was effectively 96.8RON.

Subsequent to the dyno session, I used the "seat-of-the-pants" method to add some
vacuum advance. The 123/tune allows you to have two curves loaded and these can
be swapped whilst driving. I have given a maximum of 14 degrees, as per the Lucas
distributors, and "flicking the switch" at cruise, you really can notice a bit more power
coming in. Obviously now, the vacuum is now incorporated into the main curve and I
do not have to flick a switch! I use the second curve to run a slightly softer curve
with 2 degrees less advance, in case I have to use 95RON fuel for some reason.

I can post the curve if anybody is interested, subject to a disclaimer that if it is used
and an engine blows up as a result, it would not be my fault.


Obviously, if your engine is EXACTLY the same spec as mine, it should be close...

[miniminor]

Bought a Powermax distributor to replace the standard Lucas 25D for my '63 850. It made a vast difference to tick over and easy to fit with good instructions supplied.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini- ... 1c22064837

[Spider]

@ ianh1968 re: your 123.

I haven't seen a fully programmable 123 like it appears you have, then again, I haven't looked at them recently. The only models I've seen in the past have 16 selectable pre-set curves, so it seems your's is user programmable?

If that what it is, then it does have me interested. I understand CSI do have these type of dissys available, but haven't yet had my hands on one. While I have always liked the concept of the 123, I've always felt that of the choice of curves there wasn't any that really suited the A Series engine, but if user programmable, well, that then become a different story. An input for a Knock Sensor would also be handy, does it have user programmable inputs?