mini prices

[LDR209H]

And you think it only applies to the mini scene

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Escort-T ... 20c566d0d3
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Ford-Esc ... 3a713761dd

Another bread and butter 70's/80's hack. I would put my last buck on 90% of Twin Cams/RS1800's/RS2000's/Mexico's being log book rebuilds.

Interestingly the last classic car 'bubble' in the late '80's seemed to favour different marques,not sure what the logic is there. Cost of fuel,number
of remaining cars,fashion ?? One example I can think of being the TR6 which seemed to go ballistic for no apparent reason. I remember one minter being
listed at £25 grand at that time (1987ish),now (in the next boomtime) you can get a half decent one for a smidgin over 10K. Maybe knackered metering units
resulting in 8-10mpg weren't such an issue back then ?!!
P.S. No hate mail for posting the links !! (cough spit ...)

[KR200]

But are there any exceptional mk3 S's?

No. Perhaps a handfull out of 1500 built.

Like mk1 S's most are bastardised junk.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I've seen alot of cars in the last couple of decades and came to the conclusion years ago that most Mk1 S's I've come across/owned have been flat packed from a logbook, mainly due to amount of 'action' these early cars recieved in motorsport (note: not many Mk1 850's have been reshelled) and owners general abuse. On the contrary due to the fact that Mk3's weren't the rally machine of choice to any degree , there wasn't much of a place for them on the circuits either and that they didn't have that long to wait before becoming a 'classic car' in the 80's most of them seem to have survived reasonably intact. We have to remember that many earlier Mk1's got updated as time went on with Mk2 back lights, black painted trim, bigger engines etc .
The main mod with Mk3's was to get rid of the hydro so there's a few dry ones about and yes some were reshelled into that little old lady's low mileage Mk3 or the odd one into a completely wrong later shell.

I agree that most Mk1 S's are bitzas.

However there simply isn't that many Mk3's left. If you do a search it seems many of the Mk3's have been reshelled. This happened because they rotted out and it wasn't worth welding the knackered thing up when you could twin it into a nice old ladies car. There's a red reshelled car with SussexSportsCars and a green reshell on evilbay.

I agree they weren't raced as much, but rallycross etc destroyed many. Mini's have been campaigned solidly through the 70's and 80's. I suspect many were stolen. Many again smashed up on the street. A 1971 Mk3 S on its original shell is a rare thing. Not as rare as a 970 or 1071 but rare.

Does anyone know how many of the 1500 odd Mk3's were RHD home market?

[Pete]

Does anyone know how many of the 1500 odd Mk3's were RHD home market?

Just over half of them.

The red one on SSC was on Ebay last year at sub £10K, so you can see how greedy they are as it's nearly double now and no doubt it will take months to shift it to someone with more money than sense. You can buy a better original Mk3 S for just less or just above £10K in the real world, I've done it twice in the past year and both cars were ALOT less. Dealers like SSC generally serve people who A. Don't know what they're looking at and B. can't be arsed looking for a decent car themselves. Their prices consequently are aimed very high and nowhere near a realistic value obtainable easily elsewhere with a little effort.

[Pete]

This business of S's changing hands for £20k is madness.

Can't see why you think that really, it's happened for very understandable reasons.

1.Minis are the country's favourite classic car and the Mk1 Cooper S is the top of the heap to most and an international motoring icon.
2. Huge numbers have been exported over the last couple of decades leading to a situation where there's a dozen serious buyers (some from abroad) chasing every single car that comes up for sale, which they seldom do !
3. They cost an absolute mint to restore properly using mostly original ( no longer available new) parts.

When you can buy a five year old Audi TT for £5K yes it does seem like madness, but you can get one of those anywhere, anytime (and will empty your pockets quicker than a one legged geordy !)

However alot of the value of these cars is simply in the logbook. Personally, I'd rather buy a nice early Mk1 , stick some period goodies on it , tune it or even drop an S motor in it (that's all the factory did !). Either way you end up with a car to your taste that goes and looks like a Mk1 'S' for half the money and probably has more provenance ! Simples !

[KR200]

This business of S's changing hands for £20k is madness.

Can't see why you think that really, it's happened for very understandable reasons.

1.Minis are the country's favourite classic car and the Mk1 Cooper S is the top of the heap to most and an international motoring icon.
2. Huge numbers have been exported over the last couple of decades leading to a situation where there's a dozen serious buyers (some from abroad) chasing every single car that comes up for sale, which they seldom do !
3. They cost an absolute mint to restore properly using mostly original ( no longer available new) parts.

When you can buy a five year old Audi TT for £5K yes it does seem like madness, but you can get one of those anywhere, anytime (and will empty your pockets quicker than a one legged geordy !)

However alot of the value of these cars is simply in the logbook. Personally, I'd rather buy a nice early Mk1 , stick some period goodies on it , tune it or even drop an S motor in it (that's all the factory did !). Either way you end up with a car to your taste that goes and looks like a Mk1 'S' for half the money and probably has more provenance ! Simples !

The Cooper S is a great car. As well as being the past if we're all honest it's the future.

Whilst it's MPG is pretty poor it's small and nimble. As fossil fuel rises in value the big engined classics will be simply unwanted. The kudos is actually owing an S. Top of the tree is a pukka Mk1 with its OG shell.

2nd is a Mk2 then Mk3. Same as it ever was. A reshell S is still desirable. But investment wise not terribly good news. Then we have the 60's standard Coopers which are still great machines.

I've seen prices of other classics go insane so its not just Minis. Will it crash? I often ponder. Will owners bail out if there cars are dumping value? I personally can't see it for the foreseeable future.

Classic cars are toys. You (usually) save up for them and you get your prize at the end. They are evocative and allow you to regress to a different time. They are bought with the heart not the head. Austin Allegros are hateful things! Cooper S's are not.

Supply and demand. All I've ever seen it prices going north. With interest rates at .5% many are putting their funds into a toy. Plus generally there's not much really exciting stuff after 1970. It all got a bit safety conscious etc.

I'm happy with my small collection of 60's oddities and my '71 S.

[Andrew1967]

However alot of the value of these cars is simply in the logbook. Personally, I'd rather buy a nice early Mk1 , stick some period goodies on it , tune it or even drop an S motor in it (that's all the factory did !). Either way you end up with a car to your taste that goes and looks like a Mk1 'S' for half the money and probably has more provenance ! Simples !

I know someone who did exactly that for even less than half the price of a 'genuine' S

Trouble is, although its not the real deal, I still don't like it getting wet and muddy

[Pete]

I know someone who did exactly that for even less than half the price of a 'genuine' S

..and then some ! Yours is a proper replica, the only difference between your Fiesta Yellow car and a 'genuine' S is the logbook. Lots of people used think my old 'JFO' was the real deal. Right colour (Almond Green / White) , right Cooper trim, dash vinyl, twin tanks, boot brackets, 120 speedo, 1300GT motor, carbs and airbox, discs, Minilites, all the right badging, door chromes and Morris Cooper grille etc etc... Looked like an 'S', went like an 'S', even smelled like an S for about a third of the cost.

Talking of which, I'm starting a regular None Cooper Corner in the MCR mag soon for all those bereft of Cooper badging from sooped up Mk1's, Travellers, err.. Hornets to late Minis, Jems, Byson , you name it, I think your car should be the first to feature Andrew,or the pick up ?

[Pandora]

1.Minis are the country's favourite classic car

well, they are up there, but consider this:

18 months ago a pal of mine bought a really lovely S1 1/2 E type roadster, in 'retail red'. A home restoration, but a nut and bolt job, and as good as 95% of the best cars out there. He's cagey about what he paid, but it was between £25-30K

Now, OK, He got a bargain, but park a Mk1 'S' next to it and give me the choice.......

E type every time.

Living in the real world, you don't get what you pay for with Coopers these days. Tuning up a deluxe or building a replica 'S' seems to be the only option, and to drive they'll do the job (and you probably enjoy it more cause you won't worry about the (perceived) value/worth

[Andrew1967]

I know someone who did exactly that for even less than half the price of a 'genuine' S

..and then some ! Yours is a proper replica, the only difference between your Fiesta Yellow car and a 'genuine' S is the logbook. Lots of people used think my old 'JFO' was the real deal. Right colour (Almond Green / White) , right Cooper trim, dash vinyl, twin tanks, boot brackets, 120 speedo, 1300GT motor, carbs and airbox, discs, Minilites, all the right badging, door chromes and Morris Cooper grille etc etc... Looked like an 'S', went like an 'S', even smelled like an S for about a third of the cost.

Talking of which, I'm starting a regular None Cooper Corner in the MCR mag soon for all those bereft of Cooper badging from sooped up Mk1's, Travellers, err.. Hornets to late Minis, Jems, Byson , you name it, I think your car should be the first to feature Andrew,or the pick up ?

Thanks Pete, that would be great. Pm or email me with your requirements and I'll sort something out.

I am currently fitting up the pick-up and don't think it will be finished before August at the earliest.

I'd be more than happy to be featured twice in your new section

[KR200]

Now, OK, He got a bargain, but park a Mk1 'S' next to it and give me the choice.......

E type every time.

I'm afraid the "what would you have" argument rarely stacks up.

Just because an E type is plainly a more attractive and faster machine than a mundane Mini does not mean it is worth a lot more on that basis alone. You could go and by several XJS's for the price of an S and they're not too dissimilar in execution.

A Messerschmitt TG500 (Tiger) is worth £100k. A Brough Superior SS100 is approx £250K. They are rare and should be viewed as antique collectables. I think the Cooper S is such a legend and on that basis it is rightly priced. The market dictates the price. Actually the Japanese market may dictate our prices! If you can't afford a Mk1 get a Mk2 or a Mk3. I decided on a Mk3 as I see them as good value and in time may usurp the Mk1. Who knows?! It is rarer. Tastes change. I have enough 60's stuff. What I wanted was a Bronze Yellow S which is typical of that time in a glam rock colour and I'm now in the process of lightly modding it into something "your man about town" (with style!) may have driven in '71! It's fun sourcing the bits and I'm pretty much there.

Horses for courses!

[In the shed]

It boils down to this as far as I'm concerned.

If you like an early fast mini would you buy.

1. A Mk1 which has been tuned and has some period/cooper/s bits and perhaps cooper badges but is clearly a bitsa without Cooper on the logbook for say £3000 or

2. A Mk1 which has lots of cooper bits and has Cooper S on the logbook for £14k?

Put it this way, my early bitsa is more of a genuine honest car than some logbook job and it's most certainly not worth the extra money for the latter.

Clearly, if you have an original S with all matching numbers and original paint, that's a rare and beautiful thing.

Lots of the no2 cars were made by "One born every minute" types like my man in Torquay who somehow had a pile of logbooks and was gradually selling them to mugs.

I've come to the conclusion that it's just gone totally insane. However, we are unlikely to see it return to pre-premium days. Minis are up there with the Jags now.

[guru_1071]

A Brough Superior SS100 is approx £250K.

ay the Bonhams auction in Harrogate last year the 'star of the show' was a mint SS100, that had been owned for many years by the chairman of the Brough club, it had raced and won loads of stuff, before it had been returned back to standard.

it was a fine looking example, with tons of provable history, it was touted (and rightyly so i think) as 'the best example'

it got bid up to about 90 odd grand and didnt sell.

an indication, i thought that the market for classic bikes isnt quite as hot as a lot of people in the trade would like to think - the auction house was packed, with plenty of phone bidders.

i was watching the owners son, who was sat in the crowd with a bonhams rep sat next to him - at 90 odd grand his face was white and he was furiously shaking his head as the Bonhams guy was obviously suggestion that the reserve be dropped to try and nudge the bidding up more - the bike was 'sold to the wall' by the auctioneer, with no mention at the time that it hadnt sold - had i not been watching the guy i would have assumed it had been sold!!!

ive not seen it up for auction since, so i guess its been wheeled back into the garage

[KR200]

Check out some of the prices on here a few days ago. OK Monaco but punters do their research.

Mini Traveler. 28K Euro. The Zagato 1300 Alfas have gone utterly insane. 400 grand. They were 50k sterling and I thought that was insane.

Look at the low nose SS. I bought a RHD SS when I was 14 for 475 quid! Then again I bought a tidy Innocenti Export 1300 for 245 quid in '87.

Prices are up there. There will be dips and troughs etc. But there is a new order. Probably the internet that has given global knowledge to wealthy collectors.

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResult ... eCode=MC12

EDIT

Over 19K euro for a '93 Moke. WTF?! Makes a 25k Mk1 S a gift..

It really has all gone to total $hit. If you aint got your bits and you're a ordianary bloke you're in a Cooperised 850.

[Brynmor]

At the moment i'm really tempted to get a genuine Mk2 Cooper or a Mk3 S and build it to something i'd enjoy:

A, because it's a real 'Cooper' and that does mean a little something to me
B, because they're at a price point where it's affordable (just)

Pete's mentioned JFO and it's the biggest regret of my time that I sold that car but fingers crossed in next few weeks I can get something to build as I like...it's interesting to note that a vast amount of the badge snobbery seems to be vanishing in the last couple of years.

[surfblue63]

Mini Traveler. 28K Euro. http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResult ... eCode=MC12

EDIT

But it is a Radford, maybe.

Here's a Traveller closer to home with Titled Ownership that shows the ever increasing prices.

Mini formerly property Lord Mountbatten of Burma For Sale (1965)

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C304144

[Old English White]

That looks v.nice Always fancied a red "woody". That isn't an oversill I can see hanging down on the side though is it ?

[Pandora]

Now, OK, He got a bargain, but park a Mk1 'S' next to it and give me the choice.......

E type every time.

[/quote]

I'm afraid the "what would you have" argument rarely stacks up.


Horses for courses![/quote]

I agree, of course, but I was pointing out that I'd suggest the E type is probably the UK's classic car (with reference to an earlier post), so that price justification doesn't stack up either.

[JC T ONE]

But it is a Radford, maybe.

Yes maybe is the right word here, loads of wrong / missing details, and no history.

[618AOG]

This business of S's changing hands for £20k is madness.

Not at all. When you see some hateful rubbish like TR6's making 15k, and E Types, Healey 3000's etc selling for 40k and more, 20k for a perfect Cooper S is not unreasonable. It is a sought after classic car, and you see what 20k will buy you in terms of a new car which, in 7 years time will be worth ten quid and a Mars Bar.
Yes, 20k is a lot of money but you'll get it back and more when you sell again. That makes it a cheap car.

[KR200]

This business of S's changing hands for £20k is madness.

Not at all. When you see some hateful rubbish like TR6's making 15k, and E Types, Healey 3000's etc selling for 40k and more, 20k for a perfect Cooper S is not unreasonable. It is a sought after classic car, and you see what 20k will buy you in terms of a new car which, in 7 years time will be worth ten quid and a Mars Bar.
Yes, 20k is a lot of money but you'll get it back and more when you sell again. That makes it a cheap car.

Spot on. (Oh and and indeed TR6's are deplorable junk).