QL5000 Joint Play

[atm92484]

I installed a new set of QL5000 joints and torqued the nuts to 10 ft-lbs. There is play at the axle side on both joints but no play on the diff side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1GhfjF9a2c

Is this normal for these joints?

[Peter Laidler]

There''s definately something wrong with the QH coupling (unlikely) or the drive shaft end coupler. It shouldn't move like that!

Take it apart and check the fit of the shaft coupler to the QH coupler and that you haven't lost any of the needle rollers from the QH coupler.

Wold be interested to hear what the fault was

Second thoughts....., added a few minutes later after a re-run of the video..... Are you sure that the plastic end knobs of the loose part are pulled fully inwards and the U bolts clamped over the correct part?

[atm92484]

That was my initial thought but I couldn't get them to move. The fit between the u-bolt and the groove is tight as is the u-bolt in the holes so there is no way for it to shift.

There is the same play on both sides at the drive shaft end coupler - were there differences in parts over years that may be causing the play?

I was thinking about making some shims but that seems like it shouldn't be necessary on new parts.

[Ronnie]

That movement indicates that the steel X joint is machined to the wrong dimension laterally or the cups are machined out of tolerance, I would not expect that much clearance between the cups and the top of the X internally joint needs investigating!

Incidentally in that section of the joint, are the cups fitted with the seals

[atm92484]

They are fitted with seals

I did a bit more digging today - I originally thought the holes in the yokes were fairly tight but it seems like there is more clearance in the axle yoke holes than the diff yoke holes (it is like this on both sides). It makes sense to have some clearance since u-bolts are never perfect but I'm not sure how to get everything tight without either making shims or making new offset cups from aluminum since the taper will always cause the bearing to locate further away from the u-joint.

[Ronnie]

They are fitted with seals

I did a bit more digging today - I originally thought the holes in the yokes were fairly tight but it seems like there is more clearance in the axle yoke holes than the diff yoke holes (it is like this on both sides). It makes sense to have some clearance since u-bolts are never perfect but I'm not sure how to get everything tight without either making shims or making new offset cups from aluminum since the taper will always cause the bearing to locate further away from the u-joint.

Surely the bearing cups they they should be captive in the nylon/aluminium yoke adaptors and not just interference fit they should be stepped Like a standard H/S you have your circlips, and don't just rely on the cup fit in the yokes.

[Peter Laidler]

That's a point Ronnie....... where are the circlips?

[atm92484]

There were no circlips in the box - only the bearings pressed into the plastic cups, the u-joint, u-bolts, and nuts. Where are the circlips supposed to go (there is a ridge molded into the cups so the bearings can't go all of the way through)?

[Peter Laidler]

The cast-in ridge will have obviated the need for the circlips. The circlips retained the bearings on the S type joints

[Ronnie]

There were no circlips in the box - only the bearings pressed into the plastic cups, the u-joint, u-bolts, and nuts. Where are the circlips supposed to go (there is a ridge molded into the cups so the bearings can't go all of the way through)?

"there is a ridge molded into the cups so the bearings can't go all of the way through"
I have never used this type of joint, but I would expect the plastic/alloy adaptors to be machined (counter bored) to hold the needle race in a captive position in the centre of the joint axis, I would not expect this type of joint to need circlips Consult the supplier and show them your video and get your $ back don't use those joints they will end up in your gearbox

[mab01uk]

I think the black QL5000 joints are manufactured by Minispares (see link below) so probably worth contacting them as there may be a production problem and they usually investigate customer issues with their parts.
DRIVESHAFT COUPLINGS SIMILAR TO Q H ROLLER TYPE (PAIR)
"The rubber coupling alternative made by Mini Spares has superior nylon cups with needle bearings."
https://www.minispares.com/ql5000-drive ... -type-pair

The original joints were branded Quinton Hazell QH5000 back in the day and had metal, then later white nylon plastic cups as in ebay photo below.
Quinton Hazell QH5000 Drive Couplings
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176511727235

['S'-type]

The actual u/joint crucifix dimensions are 27mm by 75 mm. (Cup diameter 2.697cm, Joint Diameter end to end 7.461cm). (Metal parts only)
They are available to replace worn ones, re-using the nylon outer cups. The part number can be GUJ101, GUJ102 or sometimes GUJ116. Often sold as suitable for numerous Triumphs TR4 TR5 etc. Also LandRover factors.
Available with or without grease nipple. Circlips not needed of course.

e.g.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133635425869

Also sold by Seven Mini Parts / Minimania in USA.

https://www.7ent.com/products/u-joint-t ... j0102.html

Having said that it's unlikely the ones in your kit wll be incorrect dimensions, so doubt that is your issue but might be worth checking.

Nylon cups are available from Minispares UK individually if you have any mullered ones.
https://www.minispares.com/msp013-nylon-cup-for-ql5000

['S'-type]

Just seen this on the Seven Mini Parts site.

Not sure if it is of any use. I've never found the need to do this myself, but I've e never used these later black ones

Seven Installation Tip:

The modern reproductions of this universal joint, just like the origin Quinton Hazell product, can be installed most easily by following these steps on the work bench before attempting to install them on the car:

Using a spare inner drive shaft yoke, test each U-bolt from the kit by sliding into the holes in the yoke. If you don’t have a spare yoke, then remove the one on your car. Use a round file first to make sure they are no burrs in each hole. You want the u-bolts to be able to slide readily into the holes of the yoke. This will often require you to squeeze the ends of the u-bolt closer to each other. This can be done in a vise, with large pliers, or even with a hammer. Don’t begin your install until all of the bolts fit readily. Then test the u-bolts in the other yoke still on the car, so you know that all u-bolts fit easily.
Now that the u-bolts fit the yoke holes, you will need to try the u-bolts on the plastic cups of the joint assembly. You will often find the u-bolts are now too narrow to slide into the groove in the plastic cup. Using the same round file in the groove for the u-bolt, you can remove some of the plastic of the joint. Try to take some off each side of the cups at the point where the u-bolt contacts the cup. Just take off enough on each side so the u-bolt can slide over the cup and seat fully in its groove. You don’t need to enlarge the groove fully around the cup, only at the points of contact. All eight (8) cups may require this attention.
The objective is for the bolts to fit snugly on the cups and still slide easily into the yokes. Once you are able to do this on the bench, you can do it on the car much more easily and with less frustration.

['S'-type]

Having thought about this, the play along just one axis must result from one of three things. Incorrect dimensionsioning along that same axis on both the joints themselves. Highly unlikely. Missing inboard seals allowing the play on that axis only on both joints, again highly unlikely as OP says seals are present.
That leaves a problem with both outboard yokes. They appear to be too wide for the joint.
The 1800 /2200 range used the same principle of a sliding yoke arrangement just a slightly beefed up version. I don't suppose those outer yokes are from that range by any chance. I don't even know if they mate up with a mini drive shaft spline. Probably not!

Pics of 1800 parts here

attachment=0]new-016_023_1.jpg[/attachment

attachment=0]new-017_023_1.jpg[/attachment

[atm92484]

Rich from Mini Spares reached out - I'm going to try what he suggested and remove the couplings, compress them in a vise, and see if extra grease is what is keeping everything from seating.

The prior owner that started the restoration assembled the front subframe so I am not 100% sure what is there. I have another set of axle yokes that I plan to test with while everything is removed.