Weslake or Arden 8 port

[999 ORX]

Fair enough I can understand your point, that did happen. Mainly because 5 porters were cheaper and thus had more time and effort developing them. If 8porters were as cheap as the 5porter back then then they would have trounced the 5 porter. Stick your very best 5porter against and 8porter today and it's no comparison.
you will Never get a 5 porter to flow like a 8 porter. The exhaust needs the go round the push rods, I know clever things can be done with overlap and exhausts but it's a simple fact they just won't do what 8 porters can. I have a 8port head which runs on the 5 port arrangement, it's very good but this is still not as good as the proper 8ports. I want a Weslake, I'd Waite for a skanky damaged one before I get a harden... Dont get me wrong the new ardens are likely to be brilliant, but for me I prefer to trust cast iron.. Least it doesn't need a skim every time you pop the head gasket.

[Astro]

Well I know personally 2 drivers, well one now as the other died last year who got rid of weslake 8 porters because they could't beat a 5 porter on SUs down the straight. Both went to Longman for 5 porters with split Webers and that is why I will never believe the 8 port hype.

Hi,

if you are running on a flat circuit on high revs, this may be right. The difference is the torque, not the hp. Just with a 300/300, for example Swifts SW23 you have power from low revs and you can accelerate from each hairpin as with no 5-port engine. But there was another difference. That was the quality of the cast of the early Westlake’s as Arden’s. It was often much better to be a bit slower with a 5-port than not to reach the finish.

[999 ORX]

Haha! True!

Well I know personally 2 drivers, well one now as the other died last year who got rid of weslake 8 porters because they could't beat a 5 porter on SUs down the straight. Both went to Longman for 5 porters with split Webers and that is why I will never believe the 8 port hype.

Hi,

if you are running on a flat circuit on high revs, this may be right. The difference is the torque, not the hp. Just with a 300/300, for example Swifts SW23 you have power from low revs and you can accelerate from each hairpin as with no 5-port engine. But there was another difference. That was the quality of the cast of the early Westlake’s as Arden’s. It was often much better to be a bit slower with a 5-port than not to reach the finish.

[ivor badger]

The current view given to me by someone who should know is that the 8 porter gives more low down power, but the 5 porter gives more ultimate power.
Back in the days when the heads were in regular use I watched 2 minis leave the Croft chicane. Both cars had been picked up from their respective tuning companies over the weekend from rebulids, this was easter monday. The first car out the chicane had a full Arden fuel injected 8 porter built by Arden and the 2nd one had a Longman offset valve split Weber set up. The Longman car got alongside the Arden car and then the 2 of them ran nose to nose all the way to Tower with no advantage to either in speed. Apart from the 5 porter being about 1/2 the money. Btw Box Fox won the class with his 1300 twin cam Ford mini.

Saw a lot of Weslake 8 porters in the 70s and trying to think of a really good one worth the cost of fitting it. even know someone with full set of NOS genuine valves for one if anyone wants to buy them.

So when did financial expenditure ever hold back an 8 porter in the days when it mattered?

[999 ORX]

Well that's a fair point, you've obviously been there, done that, and worn the t shirt I'm relatively young and still a lot to learn..
Do you know how they got the NA 5porter to compete with a fuel injected Arden? (Ie spec) I'm intrigued! Presuming they both weighed a similar weight and the Arden wasn't being driven by a salad dodger!

[guru_1071]

but for me I prefer to trust cast iron.. Least it doesn't need a skim every time you pop the head gasket.

i would go the other way, at least with an alloy head you can easily and cheaply weld it up if there is problems, something that cannot be done with an iron head (look at astros weslake, a single porosity problem and its scrap)

the arden doesnt suffer from headgasket issues as there isnt the hot spot in the middle from the two exhaust valves (like on an iron five port) - an arden can run hard and hot and if you take the gasket off it will be fine, with no signs of scorching (i.e no blackening of the centre of the gasket like you get on a five porter)

this arden was repaired and has done another three hard seasons racing on a 1430, had it been iron it would have made a handy door stop

[guru_1071]

It was often much better to be a bit slower with a 5-port than not to reach the finish.

whats that saying 'to finish first, first you have to finish!

[guru_1071]

The chap with the weslake in a MM is called Sam Anker , he works for Land Rover at Gaydon now but used to work in engine experimental at longbridge . He has collected some really interesting bits over the years .

We ( SMMC ) built the engine he has in the MM at the moment , in use,s a pair of downdraft webers of a MG meastro . The manifold,s were specially cast to his design and I machined them . There about 6 inches long so would no be suitable for a mini unless you fitted a periscope

The car is a custom lime green MM pick up roadster .

i can remember this car appearing in the old 'street machine' magazine in the 1990's - it was the first time id ever seen a weslake 8 port in a colour photo, certainly the first time id ever seen one in a running car

[Astro]

If however, anyone is tempted to buy one of these new Weslake 8 port heads I would suggest paying for it on delivery.

This might not be enough. If any holes are closed by braising, you will not earlier recognize them than running the complete engine.

[ivor badger]

It was often much better to be a bit slower with a 5-port than not to reach the finish.

The point I am making is "that it wasn't slower to use a 5 porter"

The reliability of the 2 heads was similar. Lots more bits break on a mini than just the head.

It cost a lot more to build an 8 porter, so the fast people who used them tended to be well heeled financially.

[Astro]

The point I am making is "that it wasn't slower to use a 5 porter"

as earlier posted, this depends on the „road“. If you are running hill climbs you can’t use a 3xx° cam and than the 8-port is superior. We tried it and the difference will be a bit more than a second each kilometre. In France most hills are about six kilometres. One is starting at 1500m above sea level.

[carlt]

Well I know personally 2 drivers, well one now as the other died last year who got rid of weslake 8 porters because they could't beat a 5 porter on SUs down the straight. Both went to Longman for 5 porters with split Webers and that is why I will never believe the 8 port hype.

Is it the combustion chamber - or lack of - that is the crux of the issue with the 8 porters , especially with big bore engines

[guru_1071]

Well I know personally 2 drivers, well one now as the other died last year who got rid of weslake 8 porters because they could't beat a 5 porter on SUs down the straight. Both went to Longman for 5 porters with split Webers and that is why I will never believe the 8 port hype.

Is it the combustion chamber - or lack of - that is the crux of the issue with the 8 porters , especially with big bore engines

its certainly not an issue with the '2012' version of the arden - the chambers are 21cc now (they used to be 16cc), that and the re jigged ports help with the power and torque delivery

[carlt]

its certainly not an issue with the '2012' version of the arden - the chambers are 21cc now (they used to be 16cc), that and the re jigged ports help with the power and torque delivery

Is this why the new heads require longer pushrods , presumably there is more thickness in the head casting to get the increased combustion chamber volume

[guru_1071]

Is this why the new heads require longer pushrods , presumably there is more thickness in the head casting to get the increased combustion chamber volume

ardens have always needed longer pushrods, they where one of the 'mystery parts' that made the arden such a pain to use, there was no 100% right or wrong answer as to the exact correct length. from memory the MGB version was an ideal starting point

the 2012 heads are thicker, so the decision was made to factor all the parts a customer would need to easily fit and use a head, so the longer pushrods where made (in a three piece design - a well proven method used in many american hi-po engines). the pushrods will suit 99% of block / cam types, but for people running decked blocks etc, there is the easy option of ordering the pushrods to a certain length. stuff like the head stud kit is also sold as a single part number now, so people dont have to hunt around for odd lengths studs etc, something that was a real chew in the old days.

[RTJ]

As for the westlake being slow,

In 1968 Vita won the European Saloon car championship and Northern saloon car championship,
in 1969 Northern saloon championship win. BRAC Hillclimb championship. Not to mention Geof woods domination of the 1300 saloon car 31 wins in 1970 and wining the championship in 1971 all with the westlake head.

You would have to ask the question why B.V.R.T asked for the heads to be supplied as a rough cast so they could machine to there own specification. In this regard I would put the success of any race engine and it's components down to the engine builder.

[Astro]

As for the westlake being slow,

In 1968 Vita won the European Saloon car championship and Northern saloon car championship,
in 1969 Northern saloon championship win. BRAC Hillclimb championship. Not to mention Geof woods domination of the 1300 saloon car 31 wins in 1970 and wining the championship in 1971 all with the westlake head.

You would have to ask the question why B.V.R.T asked for the heads to be supplied as a rough cast so they could machine to there own specification. In this regard I would put the success of any race engine and it's components down to the engine builder.

this is why I tried to get one. One of the new ones with a better cooling and today’s casting technology. Will it still become true?

[carlt]

ardens have always needed longer pushrods, they where one of the 'mystery parts' that made the arden such a pain to use, there was no 100% right or wrong answer as to the exact correct length. from memory the MGB version was an ideal starting point

Two engine builders I have spoken with , both very familiar with period Arden heads use std 1275 pushrods ?

[ivor badger]

As for the westlake being slow,

In 1968 Vita won the European Saloon car championship and Northern saloon car championship,
in 1969 Northern saloon championship win. BRAC Hillclimb championship. Not to mention Geof woods domination of the 1300 saloon car 31 wins in 1970 and wining the championship in 1971 all with the westlake head.

You would have to ask the question why B.V.R.T asked for the heads to be supplied as a rough cast so they could machine to there own specification. In this regard I would put the success of any race engine and it's components down to the engine builder.

So well heeled semi works team won a european saloon car championship as it was paid to do.

Did Peter Hawthorne not win the 69 Northern Saloon car championship with a 5 port mini with a 45 Weber?

[Astro]

ardens have always needed longer pushrods, they where one of the 'mystery parts' that made the arden such a pain to use, there was no 100% right or wrong answer as to the exact correct length. from memory the MGB version was an ideal starting point

Two engine builders I have spoken with , both very familiar with period Arden heads use std 1275 pushrods ?

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