What Do You Do With Frilly Steel?

[cobolman]

Here's a pic from the inside of my 1960 Austin Seven Mini, showing a front footwell. It's currently painted with some weld through primer as it really shows the frilly nature of the original steel, after it's been blasted to remove rust

FrillyFloor.jpg

That frilly stuff is razor thin in places and it *laughs* at any attempt to be welded.

Much though I'd like to keep the car original, it seems to me that panels like this, especially the floor, are dangerous, apart from anything else. So I wondered how others deal with this.

- Do you replace the panel?
- Continue to patch it but use methods other than MIG?
- Have some other neat approach, like brazing over the affected area?

Thanks for any tips.

[MiNiKiN]

Whilst I am definitely a proprietor of the "keeper of the OEM panels" group, I would recommend to replace these see-through-steel sections.

[Spider]

As Minikign suggests, if it's too thin to weld, it really does need to be replaced.

Having said that, gas welding might be an option or a 'trick' I use often is to put a block of copper behind it and weld away. Find a switchboard builder and get yourself a few copper busbar off cuts.

[minibitz]

Looking at how pitted the metal is the left of your repair you did amazingly well to get as far as you did without blowing massive holes.

[NicholasUpton]

In the USA there are people who can metal spray arrears like that and bring them back to new.

[woodypup59]

Surely metal spraying is akin to welding and just as likely to blow holes.

Just cut it out ad replace with new metal.

[cobolman]

Looking at how pitted the metal is the left of your repair you did amazingly well to get as far as you did without blowing massive holes.

Thank you. I was seriously doubting my abilities as I worked on this section

[cobolman]

In the USA there are people who can metal spray arrears like that and bring them back to new.

I've never heard of metal spraying. Thanks for the tip

[cobolman]

... a 'trick' I use often is to put a block of copper behind it and weld away

I've tried this to varying effect. I find that if the floor is really thin, it makes little to no difference. It'll still blow through.

I've also found that I get the best results when the copper backer is held firmly against the steel being welded which, on a floor pan, isn't always possible unless you have clamps with metter long arms

I also tried the copper backers with magnets in various places but the magnets never seem to be strong enough for the job.

If I'm doing it wrong, I welcome any advice.

Thanks.

[Spider]

There are limits to what you can do with a copper block, it does need to be hard and tight against the parent metal, but really, if it's that thin, then,,,,,,,,,,

Working with the copper block, you'd be basically using what's there are a guide and 'painting in' new metal from the MIG gun by the sounds of it. Clamp up the block on the side that's more difficult to grind and 'paint away' on the other side.

[Peter Laidler]

To be REALLY honest Cobolman and being a crap-to-useless welder myself, I'd say that just visually, it needs a new floor. Bite the bullet and tell yourself of the old saying, that you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Just my opinion of course after seeing the material and the comments

[cobolman]

... but really, if it's that thin, then,,,,,,,,,,

I agree, spider. In fact, I'm thinking of writing an article on air welding

[cobolman]

I'd say that just visually, it needs a new floor.

Thanks, Peter.

I hesitated only because the replacement floors I found didn't match the original footwell depression shape. It's a distinct pattern unique to late 1959 / late1960 Minis, sometimes referred to as an 'interim' style. It was only used for one year of manufacture.

But following a lead from the forum admin gs.davies, I went to the 1959 Register and thence to a chap called Dave at Phoenix Motor Bodies. He tells me he may have some panels. I've got my fingers crossed!

Wherever I can, I am trying to keep the car original. When I can't, I'm striving to make it look original. In some ways it's daft because the following panels are new:

- Outer wings
- Front panel
- Boot floor
- Outer Apex Panels
- Rear quarter wings
- Wheel arches
- ...

There are a number of patch panels in place too (boot hinge, boot lower sections ...)

Where these new panels deviate from the original style, I make adjustments.

For example, the boot floor. I'll weld metal over the holes cut for fog lamp wiring and patch the large oval hole for fuel injection cars, with the two hole original floor part.

I don't want to end up with triggers broom but I also don't want the car to fall apart because it's unsafe.

I never expected that I would spend so much time weighing the options to keep the car looking right.

In many ways, knowing what I know now, I wish I'd bought a later Mk1 car. Much easier to keep looking original. Maybe next time?

[68Deluxe]

... a 'trick' I use often is to put a block of copper behind it and weld away

I've tried this to varying effect. I find that if the floor is really thin, it makes little to no difference. It'll still blow through.

I've also found that I get the best results when the copper backer is held firmly against the steel being welded which, on a floor pan, isn't always possible unless you have clamps with metter long arms

I also tried the copper backers with magnets in various places but the magnets never seem to be strong enough for the job.

If I'm doing it wrong, I welcome any advice.

Thanks.

Hold your copper up with a trolley jack.

[cobolman]

Hold your copper up with a trolley jack.

I like that idea, thanks! Not sure it'll go high enough for me though as the car is on a rotisserie.

[Nick W]

Thin rusty metal is easier to weld using C02 rather than Argon. But looking at the panel you have I'd replace it to be honest.

I have a hole in my copper block so I can screw it in place when necessary

[Tupers]

As much as I like to save original panels I think that floor is too far gone especially on a monocoque car.

[68Deluxe]

Hold your copper up with a trolley jack.

I like that idea, thanks! Not sure it'll go high enough for me though as the car is on a rotisserie.

Can always use a lump of wood to take up some distance

[cobolman]

Thanks for the answers everyone.

I've decided to go with an all-new full floor from M-Machine. I've also found someone that has hand-built a pair of Mk1 interim floor depressions that I can let in to replace the style that comes with the M-Machine panel.

I'll get some pics up when I can.

[minibitz]

You might find this interesting.

Paul Wiginton shows how he modifies the shape of a floor panel. Starts about 27 mins in.

https://youtu.be/RTnffPIp1U0?si=bty9NbhNGWwSH9Ej