Re-Issued Registration Numbers

[1071kev]

Hi folks,

I'm trying to figure out if there was any logic to how DVLA issued age related plates, I'm guessing in the 1970's. The number issued on a car declared manufactured 1963 is a Radnorshire number, *FO ***. This number is of a later sequence than was originally issued in 1963, these were DFO *** or EFO ***. The car was believed to be in Newton Abbot when the number was allocated. Did DVLA pick batches of un-allocated numbers from around the country or were they specific to the area where the car was located? Owner doesn't wish to reveal the actual number, the car was actually built before 1963.

[mab01uk]

When I applied for one a few years back the DVLA appeared to just pick batches of un-allocated numbers from around the country so it was pot luck which area the number related to. The age-related numbers like re-issued original registrations are issued as non-transferable and cannot be sold and in the case i was involved in the DVLA seemed to pick the most undesirable combinations of numbers/letters just to make sure .....and presumably so they could still sell their best un-allocated ones!

One re-issued original registration which I applied for some time back for an early Mini along with all the required original paperwork evidence, tax discs, etc, was also quite desirable as a personal reg with a low number and that came back from DVLA as still transferable which was a surprise.

[Peter Laidler]

This is what I think..........
During the local licensing office period, if a reg number was transferred for the pricely sum of £5, then the car would be issued with another local number. By 'local' I mean that if it was registered in Berkshire with a YRX number, but changed when the car and owner moved to Bedfordshire, then the car would be allocated a Bedfordshire number.

For example. When I transferred a very old, 1933 Riley PL number to my Cooper S in 1972 or so, I asked if they would allocate the old Riley an appropiriate age related number. That obliged, allocating it a BL (berkshire) 3x number registration....... That my sister Brenda immediately pounced on!
Later, when the move to close the local council licensing offices was in hand, a similar Berkshire YRX xxxB car would be allocated a new number from a retained batch. In Berkshire it was usually from the RRX xxx sequence, regardless of where it now lived. But the year identifier, such as YRX 123 G would remain.

Likewise, when the DVLA had local offices, the transfer of numbers uusually meant that you'd get a local, say Oxfordshire number. So far, so good. This carried on when the DVLA became totally computerised. And as we all kow, if the computer says no, then it's NO!

Here's something else little known....... If you buy a new and unregistered car and have your old cherished number put onto it at new, then the car will STILL be allocated a standard 'ghost' number of the area and year. This ghost number is encoded on the V5 somehow and in any case, on the vehicle file. And that is the number the vehicle will be allocated when you transfer the number to your next new car.

An old Army land rover that I bought directly from them, 78 FM 14 was allocated a number from a series of YVS xxx allocated to ex service vehicles.

Anyone, please feel free to correct me

[mab01uk]

Here's something else little known....... If you buy a new and unregistered car and have your old cherished number put onto it at new, then the car will STILL be allocated a standard 'ghost' number of the area and year. This ghost number is encoded on the V5 somehow and in any case, on the vehicle file. And that is the number the vehicle will be allocated when you transfer the number to your next new car.

A few years back whenever I bought a car off my brother and where he had retained his personal reg number, the car seemed to get a totally new 'undesirable' registration with the appropriate year letter rather than the original number he bought it with as a used car. More recently the DVLA now seem to return the original registration number allocated before the transfer. Most changes over the years are probably due to whatever the latest computer system and software that has been installed at Swansea can most easily do....

[peasantslife]

Oh, there are components of the truth in each of the above posts, but sadly its far more complex an issue than any one above has yet attempted to rationalise. Almost inevitably with every county council involved there were almost countless exceptions to the 'official' instructions, and then from 1974 with the delayed passing of the batton to DVLC, they didnt always follow their own guidelines either..
So, going back to the original Question.
Radnorshires only marker was FO.
The final 'normal' in the old system was EFO 542. July63. On the 4th Aug 1964 they issued AFO 100B the first Normal in the 'Suffix' era. (simply coincidence they transitioned straddling August1st)
Why were 1 -99 omitted? because many CC's reserved 2 digit plates for motorcycles....but in Radnorshires case this was the only batch which were reserved! Subsequently once used up all motorbikes got whatever number was next allocated..
But lets just jump back to the question. The last AFOxxxB Normal was actually AFO 367B. they then moved to AFO 368C.....and got to BFO 94C by the end of the year.
Radnorshires re reg was exceptional, even where gaps were left, they were not used for re registrations, most applications received plates in the then current series - 'Irrespective of the age of the vehicle'.
If you are at all interested in knowing more there are 3 books which you need:-
Motor Vehicle Registration 1902-63 Les Newell 1999 out of print, but his son is working on an updated edition.
Same 1963-74 Jonathan Del Mar
Same 1974 - 01 Jonathan Del Mar
Its not exactly coffee table reading, but if you do need to know something about the registration process and authorative information on any UK issued plate much is revealed. I stock both Jonathans books, and often task him with questions where cars I research dont follow the rules!
If this hasnt yet answered your question Kev, message me the actual number and I'll see what additional info I can dig out.

[peasantslife]

Peter, Your assumption of Ghost numbers is not correct. There have been since DVLC days series which are specifically used for vehicles which are not new at application exactly as you suggest when a vehicle first registered on a 'personal plate or imports or military, are all good examples. They are always clearly identifiable as being not from the 'normal' series. - except perhaps where DVLC/DVLA have inadvertently failed to follow their own rules.
Since the time of the most recent series introduction in 2001, it is correct that any car being moved off its 'original' plate - of any age - the cars original plate has be 'reserved'' for future use should that, and only that, car have its 'personal' plate removed, it will unless being put directly onto another personal, shall revert to its first issued registration.
Here is an entirely hypothetical example:
V123 BCA issued by Dealer via AFRL (Automated First Registration and Licensing) in Sept1999
TOM 10 issued as a Select registration via LVO (Local Vehicle Office) a few days later in Sept99
TOM 10 is transferred off in 2002, but car is allocated a Cherished plate RDX909B
RDX909B is transferred off in 2004 and car reverts to V123 BCA.

[Festus]

I'm not too familiar with old UK registration processes since my experience is more with U.S. systems, but it does sound a bit chaotic, especially when considering how numbers were picked randomly by local offices or later centralized systems. In Montana, where I live, it's pretty straightforward nowadays. I’ve dealt with vehicle registration here myself, and honestly, going through the state offices can still be a bit of a headache if you’re not familiar with all the paperwork rules, especially for specialty vehicles.

[Polarsilver]

i scrapped a LR Discovery last week & when entering notification of that car onto the V5c on DVLA website.. was surprised how easy it was IF i wanted to retain that cars registration number .. sorry this has nothing to do with topic:roll:

[gs.davies]

This is what I think..........
During the local licensing office period, if a reg number was transferred for the pricely sum of £5, then the car would be issued with another local number. By 'local' I mean that if it was registered in Berkshire with a YRX number, but changed when the car and owner moved to Bedfordshire, then the car would be allocated a Bedfordshire number.

For example. When I transferred a very old, 1933 Riley PL number to my Cooper S in 1972 or so, I asked if they would allocate the old Riley an appropiriate age related number. That obliged, allocating it a BL (berkshire) 3x number registration....... That my sister Brenda immediately pounced on!
Later, when the move to close the local council licensing offices was in hand, a similar Berkshire YRX xxxB car would be allocated a new number from a retained batch. In Berkshire it was usually from the RRX xxx sequence, regardless of where it now lived. But the year identifier, such as YRX 123 G would remain.

Likewise, when the DVLA had local offices, the transfer of numbers uusually meant that you'd get a local, say Oxfordshire number. So far, so good. This carried on when the DVLA became totally computerised. And as we all kow, if the computer says no, then it's NO!

Here's something else little known....... If you buy a new and unregistered car and have your old cherished number put onto it at new, then the car will STILL be allocated a standard 'ghost' number of the area and year. This ghost number is encoded on the V5 somehow and in any case, on the vehicle file. And that is the number the vehicle will be allocated when you transfer the number to your next new car.

An old Army land rover that I bought directly from them, 78 FM 14 was allocated a number from a series of YVS xxx allocated to ex service vehicles.

Anyone, please feel free to correct me

My own car has quite a history of reg transfers.

Originally allocated OO 6315 in Chelmsford in December 1961 (I've seen the actual book with the entry in it), OO being a Chelmsford registration and frequently in use right up until the late 90's. I once owned a Ford Escort R165 GOO, and Essex saw many a Brown Cortina with MOO and POO registrations in the mid 70's...

In 1990, it's then owner, Mrs Robins was given a brand new Metro by her husband which was registered from new as G49 AHK (HK also being a Chelmsford plate). The Robins' decided to retain OO 6315 and apply it to the Metro, and so my car was allocated AJN 507A (JN also being an Essex plate). I suspect the paperwork was processed by the Robins' local DVLC office, again in Chelmsford.

That Metro lasted until 2010 when Mr Robins sold it, retained the plate and transferred it to a brand new Mini One. The Metro went on it's way to the scrapyard via it's second owner, wearing it's original plate of G49 AHK. OO 6315 remained on the MINI One until Mrs Robin's death in 2020 and is now held with Mr Robins on retention. I hope to get the plate at some point from him.

When I acquired my car in 1994, the '1963' A reg plate became eligible for a swap to an age related plate, as prior to that point, any dateless registrations were automatically allocated an A plate, presumably there was ample stocks of these numbers as many local areas hadn't adopted the A suffix, though by January 1964 many had, so B plates were more common. I applied for an age related plate (and I recall going to a local office in Ilford armed with the car's MOT, Logbook and Tax Disc) where they then issued LFF 835.

I've recently had contact with the DVLA over the car's registration in respect of doing a transfer of OO 6315 back to the car. They seemed to advise a couple of things that could be possible, including the retention of LFF 835, despite the logbook's endorsement, and so I'll attempt that. They also told me that it wasn't beyond the realms of possibility to retain AJN 507A as that number is still associated with the car.

If and when Mr Robins makes the decision to let me have OO 6315 back, I guess I'll find out, though I must admit, I've become quite attached to the LFF number which the car has now worn for the majority of it's life, and it'd be a shame to lose it.

Funny how some age related plates seem out of place, particularly the *SV series, or maybe that's just me!