B type S gears…..questions

[Exminiman]

Could someone bottom out a couple of questions for me please re the above.

Are laygears 22G232 and 22G1100 the same, just 22G1100 is the latest part number.

Are the above both CR ?

Was 22G231 used in an S case as a non CR box

Thanks in advance, I am presuming that there is a CR and a standard set of gears and I need a whole CR gear set or not

Cheers……

[Thorp]

22G232 (or later part number 22G1100) is the standard S spec laygear, so closer ratio.
Note there was also a factory option “close ratio” gear set that was available.

22G231 is just standard non S B type laygear fitted to an 850 etc

[Exminiman]

Thanks for that, was there a “standard” ratio and a CR B type lay gear ?

[251 ENG]

B type 3 syncro gears

22G 231 std ratio set

22G 232 / 22G 1100 close ratio gear kit as fitted to cooper and cooper s

Laygear , 3rd and first motion are different between std and close ratio

22G 232 / 22G 1100 laygear also fitted in 1275 midget

Unfortunately the reproduction 22G 1100 laygears available have be made with first gear slightly longer than original that causes issues in mini gearbox,s

[scott6058]

Can I inquire on a 22G210 laygear?

[Exminiman]

Can I inquire on a 22G210 laygear?

Could be wrong, but I think that is a ST CR laygear, so more close ratio than a standard CR…..an option possibly ?

Maybe someone can confirm?

[Exminiman]

B type 3 syncro gears

22G 231 std ratio set

22G 232 / 22G 1100 close ratio gear kit as fitted to cooper and cooper s

Laygear , 3rd and first motion are different between std and close ratio

22G 232 / 22G 1100 laygear also fitted in 1275 midget

Unfortunately the reproduction 22G 1100 laygears available have be made with first gear slightly longer than original that causes issues in mini gearbox,s

So is the issue with the repro 22G1100 being dimensionally longer ? - how do you get over that one or cant you ?

[251 ENG]

Quite a few pon this forum have had issues with the reproduction 22G 1100 with the length of the first gear , not sure if there is a satisfactory modification. Some people have also found them excessively noisy .
There seams to be issues with all the reproduction 3 syncro parts .

We did an inline box for an early lotus 7 , custom purchased a new reproduction first gear . It was that loose on the centre hub it would slide out of gear on it's own in the car .
Managed to find a serviceable used one and it was fine .

I believe minispares have had 3 goes with there 3 syncro first gear

[Exminiman]

Quite a few pon this forum have had issues with the reproduction 22G 1100 with the length of the first gear , not sure if there is a satisfactory modification. Some people have also found them excessively noisy .
There seams to be issues with all the reproduction 3 syncro parts .

We did an inline box for an early lotus 7 , custom purchased a new reproduction first gear . It was that loose on the centre hub it would slide out of gear on it's own in the car .
Managed to find a serviceable used one and it was fine .

I believe minispares have had 3 goes with there 3 syncro first gear

Thanks, really worth knowing, its not much fun to have to pull every thing back out because of a gear problem….

[Peter Laidler]

You're dead right there about having to pull the whole bloody lot out because oi a gear problem. That must be a good a reason as any for making one of those roll-about engine test trolleys shown recently on the forum. Maybe one in simplified form...... But to run-test the whole engine and box, there's not much that you could simplify.

Nice weekend job though...... Next weekend maybe!

[Costafortune]

If BMC managed to make this stuff to a decent standard 60 years ago - by the millions - how can it be such a drama making it again?

Not just Mini stuff. BMW supplied a new front wing for an E30 to a mate's bodyshop and you would have had more luck making it fit a Marina.

As far as I'm concerned: repro = crap, until proven otherwise.

[Peter Laidler]

A lot of the problem is back-engineering stuff from old used parts as opposed to factory spec detail drawings, Not knowing where the datum points were originally. A few thou here plus accumulative error thereafter, especially on gear trains and before long....... yep, it's crap!

[251 ENG]

I think the biggest problem is quantity.
If you are making 100,000 gears you can invest in decent tooling and make a good job.
Unfortunately nearly everything is remade at a price due to low quantities.

[Jason]

The laygear is also used in Midget gearboxes, I think the ‘longer’ first gear teeth have evolved on the replacement gears on the market to more suit this casing. I fitted one of these once supplied by a customer and first gear was very difficult to engage.
Simon has hit the nail on the head - demand vs development costs.
Wonder how much of a market there would be for a good quality gear made from the correct material that matched the original Austin/Morris ones?
Use of 3 synchro boxes seems to be on a bit of a revival lately.

[251 ENG]

Yes but anyone with sence uses a 4 syncro

[swifty]

I’ve got a different view on the 22G1100 laygear . I’ve used at least five of them over the last few years with no problems at all . Maybe its because I normally sell my minis before they require there first wash ! … There much better than using a knackered one …. Shirley

[Jason]

That would take away all the fun of putting a straight cut set in a 3synchro casing

[Exminiman]

Yes but anyone with sence uses a 4 syncro

Too right, but I thought I would make a passing effort to at least get a few numbers right on the poor old thing...

[Toby]

Can I inquire on a 22G210 laygear?

Scott, the 22G210 was a factory optional gear, this was regarded as the closer ratio helical set as the teeth on the 22G232 / 22G1100 are 13 / 19 / 23 / 26 and on the 22G210 13 / 17 / 21 / 24