Help identifying this… 1963?

[Exminiman]

If, as Smoke Grey says, only Austin Coopers were sent to the USA in that period, there will not be any stamp on the inner wing stiffener/bulkhead. Only Morris’s were stamped.

I had an Austin shell which I believe was a 63/64 and it had the body number stamped on the stiffener. There is of course an outside chance that it could of been a re-shell, but honestly I don't think so ?

[moita]

Only if was made an Austin made at Cowley probably.

[Exminiman]

...you could be right ?

It had this on front panel - NMP which I think is Nuffield Metal Pressings. Were they a subcontract assembler at Cowley or did they provide body shells... ?

front panel.JPG

[SMOKE GREY]

Unfortunately there is no record of the FE numbers, only chassis,engine and body numbers. Compound the problem in that there are lots of cars with out of sequence engine and body numbers.
It definitely appears to be an original Cooper shell looking at the gear change cut out. As it’s an early 62 car this was when US spec production was at its peak to supply for the big ‘ operation 850’ promotion. Towards the end of 62 production tailed off noticeably . The other thing is that the surf blue colour was the common colour after red and black

[moita]

NMP mostly present on some 62-63 Cowley cars

[Exminiman]

NMP mostly present on some 62-63 Cowley cars

So...if I am drawing this together correctly, the OPs car could be a 62/63 Austin with body number on the strengthener

[641071S]

“I think you’re confusing FE numbers with body numbers here. The factory and hence Gaydon definitely didn’t and don’t keep records of FE numbers as they were just a part number for the front end assembly unassigned to specific cars. Only enthusiasts who’ve collated FE information over the years have an idea of the rough date of an FE number, and that’s all.”


I hate to disagree with you Pete but Gaydon most definitely do keep records of SOME car’s FE numbers.
Having done lots of research in their records room for my own 997 and 1071 in the distant past, I can tell you that the cars that were provided with paint and trim by Fisher & Ludlow (many of them 997 Coopers) did not have a body number allocated and no stamped plate on the slam panel. Their FE number was used in the build record instead. The FE number actually appears in the column in the Heritage build ledgers where the body number would normally appear. Fisher and Ludlow had their own stamped plate but that’s a different story. My own 997 is an example of this. The Heritage Certificate for my car actually states in Other Information that “paint and trim was provided by Fisher & Ludlow” and “the factory record records the Front End number rather than the body number”.
Anyway, back to my original point regarding the FE number of the 997 concerned, IF his car had paint and trim at Fisher & Ludlow then the FE number would show in the build record. Ok it’s a big if, but worth a chance asking Heritage to check because, as you quite rightly say, without any other identifying numbers, he’s stuffed.

[Pete]

Well every day’s a school day, I never knew that , especially as the ‘63 850 I had which was also a Fisher Ludlow paint and trim job had a conventional body number not an FE number for a body number.
So if the factory recorded Fisher Ludlow 997s by their FE number then I agree that it’s worth seeing if Gaydon could locate it in their records yes. You need to do an article on this Steve!

[641071S]

That’s what this forum is all about, helping answer others queries and sharing information. I can’t believe that I have a tiny bit of knowledge that you didn’t have

[MrNoo]

...you could be right ?

It had this on front panel - NMP which I think is Nuffield Metal Pressings. Were they a subcontract assembler at Cowley or did they provide body shells... ?

front panel.JPG

My 63 997 Cooper had this on it's front panel too

[641071S]

NMP = Nuffield Metal Products Ltd.
Part of the Nuffield group that owned the Morris brand (not just minis). NMP were one of the suppliers of pressed body panels (not the complete shell) for BMC on the Morris Minor, Wolseley, Morris Mini etc. On the mini they usually supplied front panels for the Morris badged cars. I await to be corrected by Austin badged owners.

[Codyyy]

What state are you in?

Are you looking to title it as an original austin or morris cooper? Or as a built car when you get done with it? The reason i ask is because there's different options depending on what routes you go.

If you title it as "built" car, where you keep receipts for the parts etc... you can have any number assigned, or the DMV will assign a VIN and you'll have to have it stamped into the car or permanently affixed somehow- aka VIN tag.
Just depends on the state, and their process.

I’m located in Michigan. I bought the car from a gentleman in Ohio. I’d rather try to title this as an Austin rather than a special construction, but I’ll see what I can do.

[Codyyy]

If, as Smoke Grey says, only Austin Coopers were sent to the USA in that period, there will not be any stamp on the inner wing stiffener/bulkhead. Only Morris’s were stamped.
You could try BMIHT at Gaydon and ask them to do a search using the FE number and see if they will issue a Heritage certificate. Try emailing them first with a photo of your FE plate, tell them that it was originally surf blue/old english white and was an export to the USA and ask if they can do a search. If the build date is March - May 1962 it will only take them a few minutes to find the car’s details, if the factory recorded the FE number in the ledger which it did in most cases. If they can find it you can than apply for a Certificate which will give you all the info that you would need. They were certainly able to do it a few years ago and were very helpful when I was able to get an appointment to search their records for build details for my car by actually allowing me to look at the original BMC build ledgers and then later the microfisched records. Not sure what is allowed up there any more in these PC times, I am not even sure if you are allowed to search the Cooper records any more due to certain people taking advantage and creating clones

Thanks, I will try that. If, somehow, I can get a certificate, I should be fine to get a title. I might be fine currently but I really want to have all the paperwork sorted before I throw money at this.

[SMOKE GREY]

If, as Smoke Grey says, only Austin Coopers were sent to the USA in that period, there will not be any stamp on the inner wing stiffener/bulkhead. Only Morris’s were stamped.
You could try BMIHT at Gaydon and ask them to do a search using the FE number and see if they will issue a Heritage certificate. Try emailing them first with a photo of your FE plate, tell them that it was originally surf blue/old english white and was an export to the USA and ask if they can do a search. If the build date is March - May 1962 it will only take them a few minutes to find the car’s details, if the factory recorded the FE number in the ledger which it did in most cases. If they can find it you can than apply for a Certificate which will give you all the info that you would need. They were certainly able to do it a few years ago and were very helpful when I was able to get an appointment to search their records for build details for my car by actually allowing me to look at the original BMC build ledgers and then later the microfisched records. Not sure what is allowed up there any more in these PC times, I am not even sure if you are allowed to search the Cooper records any more due to certain people taking advantage and creating clones

Thanks, I will try that. If, somehow, I can get a certificate, I should be fine to get a title. I might be fine currently but I really want to have all the paperwork sorted before I throw money at this.

I will be back to the BHIMT in the next 6 weeks to the archive room to complete my records of the US cars, I will see if there’s any FE numbers recorded for surf blue cars in March/April.

[Joel Welsh 4769VU]

I’m located in Michigan. I bought the car from a gentleman in Ohio. I’d rather try to title this as an Austin rather than a special construction, but I’ll see what I can do.

I'm in ohio, just across the border 20 min west of toledo. Not a mini expert by any means, the folks here have helped me out alot with mine.

I have a brother in michigan who's a car guy dealt with Michigan's title laws alot... might have some advice.

What i did with my car- with no title. But i had vin plate.

I went to a lawyer, who took my car's info and put together documents for a judge.

The sheriffs department ran it to make sure it wasn't listed stolen.

Then the judge reviewed it and ordered a title issued.

From there, with court order- i went to dmv to have it inspected on a trailer. The lady looked at it- said "what kind of car is it?", "where's the numbers?"
Thats all she even looked at.

I have an issued title, in my name for a '64 austin cooper.

Miles- court ordered
previous owner- court ordered
Etc...

Don't know if it's helpful, or if mi has a similiar process... it cost me $450 total.