WTH??!?! Have you seen this item on ebay.

General Chat with an emphasis on BMC Minis & Other iconic cars of the 1960's.
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rolesyboy
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Re: WTH??!?! Have you seen this item on ebay.

Post by rolesyboy »

I'm not condoning outright ringing of cars but re-shelled Minis have been happening since day dot.
Using a later shell that was in good nick at a time when Minis were worth £50-2500 was a viable and practical solution and this happened a lot especially if you had tipped a load of money in to all the nice goodies on to your car to find the shell was beyond saving come MOT time.
There was also an element of satisfaction in transferring your old bits over.
Equally I knew enthusiastic people who bought a brand new Mk3 or Mk4 shell for a grand or so at a time when the MK1 was a worthless piece of ... and instantly had a rust free Mini which they were very proud of. At that time most people applauded this 'upgrade'.
Conversely I know people who have bought a Mk1 that was re-shelled in to a new Mk4 shell in the 90's and since reverted back to a 'better replacement' Mk1 shell.
Right now if you had a 1983 Mini it would be tax, MOT and ULEZ free as that would now be 40 years old.
For a long time Mk1 shells were not available to buy and I would imagine of all the 'original' Mk1's around a very large proportion of the panels are replacements from Heritage or Magnum i.e complete floors, boot floors, inner wings, rear quarters, doors etc so very little is left of the original car.
The same applies to the vast majority of the running gear and trim. These cars often just used to 'evolve'
Times have changed as Mini values have increased but not every Mini with a new or replacement shell is owned by a criminal. Sometimes its just whatever is convenient or the owner had to hand especially if you are not a purist. Had it been a Mk1 shell of sorts from an entirely different car I bet nobody would bother commenting (unless the seta belt mountings were too high :lol: )
The advert reads well and the guy is pretty clear in what it is and what it isn't.
As for ULEZ charges, a lot of people are either removing their modern car number plates altogether or fitting a licence plate 'sock' to avoid detection. I drove down a whole street in Enfield recently and witnessed this first hand. The police say they physically cannot keep up with the admin side of 'nicking' people and invariably let it go.
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Post by Pete »

Not sure it was as simple as reshelling your Mk1 into a late car as very little of your Mk1 would fit! Nowadays it’s more the case that an old logbook is stuck onto a late car in order to go historic rallying, and plenty do just that. Plenty of hillclimbers have done it too. I find it hard to be interested either way to be honest, we can all see what we’re looking at. It’s not as if they’re claiming it won the Monte or an RAC Rally.
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Post by rolesyboy »

Agree with all those points Pete. And yes it was way more involved than hopping over a couple of subframes, engine box and your new 10' revolutions but you get the gist. I know that happens in hill climbing etc but it also happened a lot on road cars too.
Years ago I had the inspired idea of taking the contents of a smashed low mileage SPi Cooper in to a 62 shell. Great from a mechanical perspective as most stuff fitted but carpets, trim and wiring were time consuming to say the least.
It's just a tin box and I can't understand why it matters unless somebody is trying to pass the car off as something its clearly not
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Post by 'S'-type »

rolesyboy wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:50 pm I'm not condoning outright ringing of cars but re-shelled Minis have been happening since day dot.
Using a later shell that was in good nick at a time when Minis were worth £50-2500 was a viable and practical solution and this happened a lot especially if you had tipped a load of money in to all the nice goodies on to your car to find the shell was beyond saving come MOT time.
There was also an element of satisfaction in transferring your old bits over.
Equally I knew enthusiastic people who bought a brand new Mk3 or Mk4 shell for a grand or so at a time when the MK1 was a worthless piece of ... and instantly had a rust free Mini which they were very proud of. At that time most people applauded this 'upgrade'.
Conversely I know people who have bought a Mk1 that was re-shelled in to a new Mk4 shell in the 90's and since reverted back to a 'better replacement' Mk1 shell.
Right now if you had a 1983 Mini it would be tax, MOT and ULEZ free as that would now be 40 years old.
For a long time Mk1 shells were not available to buy and I would imagine of all the 'original' Mk1's around a very large proportion of the panels are replacements from Heritage or Magnum i.e complete floors, boot floors, inner wings, rear quarters, doors etc so very little is left of the original car.
The same applies to the vast majority of the running gear and trim. These cars often just used to 'evolve'
Times have changed as Mini values have increased but not every Mini with a new or replacement shell is owned by a criminal. Sometimes its just whatever is convenient or the owner had to hand especially if you are not a purist. Had it been a Mk1 shell of sorts from an entirely different car I bet nobody would bother commenting (unless the seta belt mountings were too high :lol: )
The advert reads well and the guy is pretty clear in what it is and what it isn't.
As for ULEZ charges, a lot of people are either removing their modern car number plates altogether or fitting a licence plate 'sock' to avoid detection. I drove down a whole street in Enfield recently and witnessed this first hand. The police say they physically cannot keep up with the admin side of 'nicking' people and invariably let it go.
I agree this has been done for a long time, often for the reasons stated such as buying a new later factory shell to save an existing car. All perfectly innocent.
In some cases Mk1s were reshelled into Mk 2's as that was the current new shell from the factory. That was, and technically still is, the only correct ( ie legal) way go go about it without the risk of creating a 'ringer' and the potential problems that go with it, or having go have the car inspected to end up with a Q-plate.
With the advent of the tax-break on pre-73 cars and subsequently the rolling 40 year exemption rule on tax and MOT, the situation changed. The incentive to avoid vehicle excise duty and the need to undergo that pesky
annual MOT, led to lots of mk4 cars being given the identity of an earlier car. Sometimes this might be accompanied by some attempt to dress it up as a mark 1 car in other cases it would just be a simple reg plate and vin plate swap.
You could say there's nothing wrong with that as long as it isn't being passed off as something it isn't when it get's sold. (Although you would have to be a numpty not to spot it.)
I guess it's similar to not having a TV licence. Many people see no wrong it that, and given a lot of the dross on the BBC who can blame them? But it is fundamentally dishonest and unfair on everyone else.

lf you imagine a scenario where this friend of mine has been working on his 1990s car for 5 years and has completely rebuilt the shell and put lots of new retro parts on it, spending a small fortune in the process. Then, in a kitchen drawer, he discovered an old buff log book for a1964 car he scrapped in the 1990s but hadn't informed DVLA of this. He also then found that the V5 was still current and in his name. So he's not sure what to do, as he's got a choice of using the older car's identity, which means he can use those funky black and white number plates as well as all the other benefits including ULEZ immunity. Or he can just keep it as it is. What would members of the forum advise?

By the way, you'll have to wait until 1 April 2024 before a 1983 built car becomes eligible. Unless Labour win an election before then, in which case it probably never will.
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Re: WTH??!?! Have you seen this item on ebay.

Post by MagicWandWoody »

It's a fine-looking car and probably lovely to drive. And aesthetically I couldn't give two hoots. It's just a bit of fun. But we live in a world with a legal and administrative system that is less easy to amuse.
The buyer should worry that an adjuster will want to recover the costs of any payout - which may amount to millions if they're the at-fault driver and have an unlucky collision - from them personally. And the seller should worry that the driver's no-win-no-fee ambulance-chaser will go after him personally to recover the buyer's costs - 3rd-party payouts and all. Does the seller have insurance to fight the claim - because it's going to be expensive for him even if the claim is eventually judged to be without merit.
Driving a car that was "reshelled" 50 years ago and that today can't be told from the real thing is a virtually undetectable, errrm, 'oversight'.
But blatantly passing-off a Mk4 as a Mk1 and so waving the arse of an uninsured and untaxed car at every ANPR on the roads, just for the pleasure of having an "old" car?
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Post by mab01uk »

MagicWandWoody wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:02 pm So how long before every photo of a 'historic' car snapped by cameras in London gets a quick once-over from a knowledgable person, looking for obvious external signs of the car's real age, so as to nip it in the bud?
Very unlikely to ever be a knowledgable person on a ULEZ/ANPR camera looking out for Mk1/2 external hinges or similar considering the tiny numbers that Historic Minis make up of London's traffic....or if even there were for the Police to follow it up...in my south London area the Met Police don't even bother to visit owners of the many expensive modern cars like Range Rovers, etc being taken from local driveways every day and night. The Police are not even interested if the homeowner and nearby neighbours have high definition CCTV footage of the crime actually taking place. They just issue a crime number for insurance claims and shut the case the same day. Car crime and theft is at the bottom of the list to investigate along with shoplifting.
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Re: WTH??!?! Have you seen this item on ebay.

Post by mab01uk »

1275 Cooper S Engine & 333 Gearbox:-
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/t ... -for-sale/
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Re: WTH??!?! Have you seen this item on ebay.

Post by kit of bits »

mab01uk wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:22 pm 1275 Cooper S Engine & 333 Gearbox:-
https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/t ... -for-sale/
That’s been on eBay for a while..
D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325806026694 ... edia=EMAIL
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Post by 251 ENG »

It's also been sold on Ebay at least once :lol: :lol:
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Post by mab01uk »

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Post by Pete »

Not my thing really but this is cheap currently!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256262273225
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Post by Classic1 »

I'm in the process of collecting a few bits and pieces for my s restoration amazed at price of parts. Thinking of breaking my perfectly restorable car and going to the Bahamas :lol:
Times money and I'm always short of both
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Post by Polarsilver »

Dave, that ebay Alloy Bonnet is worth the paid price me-thinks.
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Post by Pete »

There’s a couple of pretty rare parts there to be fair. Find another original ali bonnet!
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Post by kit of bits »

Yes you won’t make one for that price but the chances of it fitting a car without a lot of work are quite slim.
Ah and I have found a couple in the past as well as lots of other original competition alloy panels..
D
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Post by Old English White »

To be honest, even finding a good STEEL bonnet for an early car is hard enough now. I don't think that was expensive.
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Post by Pete »

kit of bits wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:35 am Yes you won’t make one for that price but the chances of it fitting a car without a lot of work are quite slim.
Ah and I have found a couple in the past as well as lots of other original competition alloy panels..
D
Yeah but…you’re like a 3rd Dan black belt at finding rare parts, the rest of us… well not so much :oops: :lol:
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Post by 66Traveller »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285534343190

Shame about the standard clubman interior and the Austin 1300GT steering wheel centre.
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Post by snoopy64 »

Deposit already paid according to his website! Whooosh!
Cheers

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