JCB trialing hydrogen

[Pete]

Interesting development here:

[woodypup59]

Much more practical.

Akin to an LPG / CNG powered vehicle - like many forklifts.

Its still an ignition ICE, so much easier to understand by the average field mechanic.

Hydrogen refueling, though somewhat hazardous, means that the vehicle can be refueled in minutes, rather than hours for an electrical recharge.

[Exminiman]

Good on him and his company, if they can get it to work practically, maybe there will be a classic conversion kit

[Oneball]

Bio-fuels like Porsche are looking into are far better solution. There is currently no large scale, sustainable, energy efficient way to produce hydrogen. 95% of all hydrogen produced is made from natural gas.

[Exminiman]

Interesting, albeit promotional vid here https://youtu.be/3fWmQgXcdqA

[Bitsilly]

Plenty of hydrogen once they get Nuclear Fission sorted!
Simple!

[mk1]

Then it'll be free energy for everyone

[Oneball]

Plenty of hydrogen once they get Nuclear Fission sorted!
Simple!

I think you mean fusion

[Bitsilly]

Yeh, that's the one!
Sea water not Plutunium one!

[Herbert]

Cant wait to see the back of idiotic electric cars. Ive said all along that it was the wrong way to go. Hydrogen is the way to go in the future.

[mk1]

Yeh, that's the one!
Sea water not Plutunium one!

I like to think of it as the fantasy one as opposed to the real one

And before anyone says it, yes I know that some bloke in the States claims to have managed to get more energy out of a fusion reaction than he put in, he still said it was 20 years off. Useful fusion has been 20 years off for the last 60 years!

Anyone remember the "cold fusion" hype a few years ago

[Pandora]

Good on him and his company, if they can get it to work practically, maybe there will be a classic conversion kit

Well, he does have a couple of old clunkers himself. I sold him a lovely Mk6 Bentley shooting break as a Christmas present for his wife to use at their farm shop! It was like a Mk6 front, and a scaled up Morris Minor at the back, it was ace!

That said, he's also a major donor to a certain political Party, and former PM, so I'm sure we are all funding the research...... (avoid politics, Al)

Regarding the risks of refuelling with Hydrogen - yes, it is a risk, but then Petrol is has it's own issues, and we've managed that pretty well for a century. As a safety Bod I have long been amazed that there hasn't been an industry wide dry break seal introduced to filler caps interlinked to the trigger to make it far safer, but also to avoid the wrong fuelling issues that still catch so many out.

And, just 'cause I know he's lurking, it would also really mess with beardy Gurus when they run out of fuel so regularly and Adam has to jump into something from the 30's with a jerry can to save him. again.......

Al

[MiNiKiN]

The devils advocat says: Mr JCB is dreaming of hot ice-cream. Or where are we thinking to get the huge amounts of necessary GREEN hydrogen from? Hydrogen made from methane is about as dirty as mineral oil based fuels, as Oneball rightly states. And, against popular belief, re-fuelling large quantities is a lengthy process, apart from the dangers of a colorless, odorless, tasteless and highly combustible gas.
And the hydrogen combustion engine was tried and re-evented again and again (BMW, Mazda-rotary, you name it) for decades now - did it succeed? No - for a good reason.
I recommend Lord Bumford and everybody else watching this:
What is it like to re-fuel a H2-car in real life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0_RsqR37-E
So you better have some spare time for queueing and more time if its cold outside.

General unbiased view on hydrogen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE&t=164s

[mk1]

When you had to buy Petrol from Chemists in pint pots I am sure it didn't look like the fuel of the future either. As I see it, the disadvantages of Hydrogen are far fewer & more easily over come than the idea of millions & millions of electric cars in the world.

Cracking sea water to obtain hydrogen is not that difficult, neither are the storage & transmission issues. Yes the infrastructure is crap at the mo, but it "could" be improved. where as the sources of lithium for Li-on batteries are already looking dodgy to say the least.

For my money, hydrogen is certainly worth a closer look. Shame it's not a bit more "energy dense".

[Exminiman]

Mr Bamford is also looking at Hydrogen as fuel in relation to his products, electric diggers on remote building sites are not an ideal solution...

This is also a worldwide solution, electric vehicles (diggers or otherwise) in countries without a sophisticated infrastructure will also be a problem.

Ideally you need a portable fuel supply

[Prooij]

We designed a new driveline for a 30 tons excavator of my company completely zero emission. We use a fuel cell to charge a large battery pack and replaced the (brand new) diesel engine for a DC motor.

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/mourik- ... ydrogen-2/

Machine is in the field for about a year now and is performing really well, even better compared to the diesel one. Biggest challenge is the storage of the gas on the machine as for every 15kW 1kg hydrogen is needed (in one big 300Bar bottle is 1kg hydrogen stored)

[mk1]

S'cuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages over using a Hydrogen Fuel cell over a simple engine that burns Hydrogen?

[Exminiman]

S'cuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages over using a Hydrogen Fuel cell over a simple engine that burns Hydrogen?

this might be complete bollocks.............please don't hesitate to put me right but as I understand it a fuel cell produces electricity like a battery does, where as JCB are using it as a fuel to power an ICE

EDIT, it was bollocks as I mis-sread post you said advantages........lack moving parts, maybe ?

[Oneball]

S'cuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages of using a Hydrogen Fuel cell over a simple engine that burns Hydrogen?

Energy efficiency. A hydrogen powered ICE is about as efficient as a petrol powered one. Which are pretty poor; only 10-20% of the energy in the fuel is transformed into motion with the rest lost as heat, noise etc. A fuel cell is about 60%. Neither get away from the energy loss/CO2 emissions in making the hydrogen in the first place though.

[Prooij]

Indeed and the energy content of hydrogen is less (less oxygen mixed compared to the regular fuel) so less power will be produced with the same ICE.

In our excavator we use a relatively small fuel cell (45 kW) which constantly deliver power to a battery pack (150 kWh). So the peak power will be delivered by the battery pack to the DC motor (up to 210 kW). In this way we can work a 9-10 hr day with the excavtor doing heavy work (even better then the diesel driven one). Our system is 600 VDC (FC-battery pack-Motor) in this way we tried to reduce the losses as much as possible.

Before we started the rebuild we logged the fuel consumption and motor data of a similar excavator (easy days, normal days, heavy days, etc.) and use this data for our calculations to determine the right components.

Overhere, on certain projects, we receive some funds to excute the job with "zero emission" machinery, That is alos why we don't use hydrogen in an ICE as that's still a combustion, which produces nitrogen...(also not allowed on those projects. As everthing on those projects must be proven we have to buy/use "green" hydrogen which means it is hydrogen that is produced with an electrolyser from, for example, the surplus of energy from the windmills during the night. This hydrogen comes with certificates so that we can actually prove that we use the right hydrogen (it is ridiculous expensive though...)