A Frame Towing

[x rated z]

Does anybody have experience of towing a racer to events with an A frame ?.In my dotage have come to loath loading and trailering to events,could an A frame easy my weary mind ?. Racer is road legal and lives in Northern Ireland.

[Dean]

Its a good idea

But sorry to sound like a drip, but I thought that a A frame for towing is only for emergency recovery etc, your have to check that as I maybe wrong

I know they do them behind motorhomes, but for them to do it properly ( which i know some dont) they have to be a system them applies the brakes on the towing vehicle behind, then there not cheap,
but saying that a mini weights less than 750kg to can be towed un braked

My boss looked into it , to tow his Toyota aygo behind his motorhome, but they wanted £1800 for the kit.
In the end he bought a twin axle trailer new for around £1100

You must also remember towing the car behind will be adding mileage to it and wear and tear on tyres and running gear, it is minimal but something to think of.

Sorry for the rant, but I think if you did it, and not know the above, and Mr plod pulled you, then you would be pissed off if they said there impounding your car.

[Ronnie]

You can't reverse (caster angle) with an A frame! Also I never thought about damaging my car,I thought drive to and from events, until I rolled it (60 mile suspended tow). Use a trailer!

[zippypinhead]

I know nothing of British motoring laws. But, over here in the US I've used an a-frame set up, a tow dolly, and a trailer. the issues on each are:
A-frame: (tow bar over here)
You cannot reverse with the towed vehicle attached.
Wear and tear on the towed vehicle.
Without brakes, it's just a matter of time until you have a moment
If you have a problem with suspension/tires, you're pretty well stuck.
Really easy to store... just hang it on the wall.

Tow dolly: (a friend over here makes a really nice unit using Spridget uprights so it takes the same 10" wheels as a Mini)
You cannot reverse with the towed vehicle attached.
Wear and tear on the towed vehicle. Although it's just the rear now...
Without brakes, it's just a matter of time until you have a moment
If you have a problem with the rear suspension/tires, you're pretty much stuck.
A bit more of a PITA to store

Trailer:
About the only downsides I can find are storage when not in use & the added wear 'n tear to the towing vehicle...
My current set up is a very lightweight aluminum trailer with electrically controlled brakes. Trailer weight is 560 pounds and the Moke is 1,180 pounds for a total of 1740 pounds. Tows like there's nothing back there. It does kill the fuel mileage though. Pretty sure it's the added wind resistance. I'm thinking about making up a streamlined enclosure.

[guru_1071]

buy a trailer

using an a frame is for recovery only and if i remember correctly any car been a framed 'should' be road legal.

im amazed that the guys on retrorides etc seem to get away with it so much.

people with motor homes are on a sticky wicket as well because a car over 750kg on an a frame is technically a trailer, which has to have overun brakes, which a car does not have.

its only a matter of time before vosa clamp down more on this

[x rated z]

Thanks everybody for your posts.Guess its a trailer for me, roll on teleportation a la Star Trek.Hope you all have an enjoyable Mini year/season. tony.

[Giff]

I've been looking into this and the solution seems to be buy nothing and rent.
Theres a trailer hire place down the road from me that for example will rent out a large flatbed for £20 for 24hrs, a motorcycle trailer for the same.
That way I keep free space and can tow a car / motorcycle / Mini shell whenever I want, even to justify spending £800-1000 on a decent trailer would equate to many more days hiring a trailer than I'd probably ever need.

[Tim]

I don't know what hire trailers are like in the UK, but here they are terrible. The average Aussie car enthusiast likes 'em big. So the hire trailers are over-engineered like you wouldn't believe, most could carry a Centurion Tank. Most modern cars aren't tow rated highly enough to legally pull the empty trailer, let alone with a Mini on it. Last time I had to hire a trailer, I also had to hire a 4WD ute to tow it, which made the whole operation very expensive.

Tim

[1071 S]

I'm not making any observations as to your rules and regs but having done several long range (500 mile +) flat tows of a Mini I would suggest its no big deal. I've used braked and unbraked traillers as well as the Aframe and while you need to be mindful of the weight I've never (sic) had an incident. Well, except for the time I put the Min on backwards (there must have been a good reason at the time) - bad mistake - snaking across 3 lanes at 50 mph is VERY exciting.....

We used an 80s Volvo turbo wagon on mainly US interstates without any dramas. As people have said, backing is not possible ( beyond the odd foot or two) but we became quite adept at driving into motel carparks, dropping the tow bar off the wagon, disconnecting the Aframe from the bracket on the Mini and the wiring and rolling the Mini to its spot.

I was a bit concerned over wear and tear on the Mini but over quite a few years we didn't ever have a problem.

I prefer a trailer but the Aframe is a reasonable alternative depending on your circumstances - and legallities.....

Cheers, Ian

[timo]

I used an A Frame for many years to tow my Autotest Mini about, I was doing the National Championships at the time and therefore covered thousands of miles with this set-up and although I started to use a trailer when I moved to a lightweight Mini, the A Frame was by far the best towing experience.

The Mini was not taxed or MOT'd and this prompted the first debate. At the time, end of the 70's, I worked for Chrysler UK and the head of the department that looks after vehicle legislation looked into it for me. His conclusion was that so long as the Mini was attached to the tow car, it was a trailer and therefore extended the towing vehicle, it had to have reflective triangles on the back and the towing vehicles lights had to be extended to the rear of the Mini, and it also did not have to be taxed as it was not a vehicle in its own right.

As it happened, the first event I took it to was organised by the West Midland Police Motor Club and it promoted a fair bit of discussion, despite the number of policemen being there, of all ranks and some in traffic, they could not emphatically say one way or another that the Mini should be taxed or not.

One of the arguments being that although you may tow an untaxed vehicle on the end of a rope if the vehicle cannot be reasonaly made driveable, it would not be unreasonable to be asked to remove the A Frame and therefore the car should be taxed. The counter to that was that it would not be reasonable to require someone to remove the A Frame and therefore make it illegal.

One of the arguments went that a Mini on a trailer does not need to be taxed, therefore would a Mini balanced on roller skates need to be taxed and if not how small would the wheels have to be before the car is considered to be on the road. Not sure what this established but is raises the issue of what is the difference between a Mini and a trailer with a Mini engine and gearbox on it, this comes back to the point that a motor vehicle may be on the public highway if it may be driven or could be reasonable be made to be driven (i.e. you could not just remove the rotor arm). If it is on the public highway it must be taxed. However a trailer may be on the public highway if it is attached to a taxed towing vehicle (you cannot legally leave a trailer on the side of the road without it being attached to the towing vehicle).

This all comes back to when is a Mini a trailer and when is it a motor vehicle?. The conclusion appears to be that if it is attached to a taxed vehicle with an A Frame, it is a trailer and is therefore subject to regulations governing trailers.

Incidentally, I know of a number of people who use A Frames with home made override brakes, they connect the override hitch to the brake pedal with a bowden cable that passes through the toe board and attached to the pedal with a clevis pin.

[guru_1071]

timo


the key part of your words is 'end of the 70's'

the rules have changed since then - now, if a wheel of the vehicle been towed is on the road it needs to be legal


this is why, about 15 years ago all the grass track racers had to move from using recovery dollies / a frames to having to use trailers.

many people who use a frames to tow cars behind motorhomes are braking the law, the method of using an overun brake on a car be towed by an a frame is not a satisfactory equivilant when compared to a trailer of the same weight.

[timo]

Thanks Guru

I can't say I am suprised, but it is a shame, it was a great way to tow the Mini round

Anyone want an A Frame

[Colin]

Well so, nice discussion, and i really appreciate to above comments, no doubt a trailer is very useful thing, i also have my own trailer, trough to trailer you can easily transport your luggage and also you can transport your car, to a place to 2nd place, which is really good thing ...


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[pad4]

You can travel much quicker with a trailer as well, i hardly notice theres anything behind me when im taking the min somewhere, plus most of the time i leave the min on the trailer when its garaged



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