Heritage certificate Question

[mnicoop63]

I am curious if it is possible to send just the body number and receive information on a Mini.

Brian

[W1NG3D]

I think you'd be okay doing that - they were able to produce a heritage certificate for my CKD export NZ-assembled mini, which didn't have an engine number or many other details recorded (since it was given an engine in NZ rather than the UK). So basically all they had to go on was the MA2S4 XXXXXX number.

[dodge44]

In the past I have enquired about finding what vehicle a very low number 12H/199/xxx engine had come from to ascertain it's age and original application, but they were not very forthcoming with any assistance so going with just a body number may solicit the same indifference but worth giving it a go I guess.

[woodypup59]

If you really mean body numbers (NOT chassis numbers), its generally reckoned that they were not recorded officially.

[AndyPen]

They may well have the body number recorded Brian, but from my understanding all the paperwork was archived using chassis numbers, therefore they may not have a point of reference to work from. I'd give it a try though?

[mnicoop63]

Andy it's sort of a sad story but the reason I ask is because a gentleman within an hour or two of me has an engine for sale that I inquired about. He also has an Mk1 shell that he bought a couple years ago and had been buying parts to build it. Both he and his wife are experiencing some health issues and he offered the shell to me. It sounds like he is trying to sell off a few things because he will never get to building it now and needs the money for their health issues. I am not in the market for another mini nor do I need another engine but had to inquire about it because he had it advertised as a 997 and I can never pass up a 997. The engine ended up being a 998. After talking with him a few times over the phone and learning about his current issues with he and his wife I asked him to get me some pictures of the mini. It is in fact an mk1 and is pretty clean from what I can tell but needs the sills replaced. It is always hard to tell based on pictures. The shell looks to me like it might be an early Cooper. It has all the brackets for a Cooper in the boot and the doors have the holes for the stainless trim. Yes all of this could have been done at any point through out its life. The seatbelt mounts are high up in the B pillars. Can't remember when those were dropped down lower. He also has the subframes and suspension. Like I said I am not in the market for another mini and told him the same. The reason I asked for the pictures is because I told him I would pass them along and maybe help to find him a buyer. After seeing the pictures and wondering if it is perhaps a cooper I asked him for the VIN (here in the states it is called a Vehicle Identification Number) and he said sure no problem "it's the one above the radiator". Well he sent me the FE number. The mini is missing it's VIN tag on the radiator shroud. When he bought it he was under the impression the FE number was the VIN number/Chassis Number. Without a VIN number the shell is virtually worthless and can't be licensed to drive on the road. He did say the tag on the slam panel is there but he cant tell what it is because of the paint. So I figured if it were possible to send the body number and get information like a chassis number I would tell him about it so he could get the information. Without it he stands to lose quite a bit of money selling it as is. He seems like a genuine person and doesn't really know a lot about minis and I hate to see him lose a lot of money on it at a time when money is so important. I think I will tell him about the possibility of obtaining information via BMH and let him decide what he wants to do and then I will post it on Facebook for him in a few mini groups that are stateside.

They may well have the body number recorded Brian, but from my understanding all the paperwork was archived using chassis numbers, therefore they may not have a point of reference to work from. I'd give it a try though?

[Andrew1967]

The plate on slam panel is the body number and that would most likely have been recorded.

Clean the paint off the plate and all will be revealed

The FE number can roughly date a shell but can't identify it.

[coopersean]

If the car is early, it could also be a Super rather than a Cooper, as they were fitted with boot brackets also. Both my Super's have the chassis numbers stamped into the triangular stiffener plate on the left hand side as you look from the front - see here : https://1959miniregister.com/variations-numbers/

In the past I managed to get a Heritage Cert for an MG Midget from just the body number, but not sure if they still do this?

If you have the FE number, then someone here should be able to give an approx date of the shell from that, which may help narrow down the search?

[AndyPen]

When I went to Gaydon everything was on paper of course (90s) but maybe if things have been digitised they can cross reference to body numbers more easily now?

I have just checked their site and when asking about other numbers like the registration marks, this is what they say sadly:


"All of our information comes from the original factory build and despatch records and these are recorded in chassis number order."

[Pete]

They are recorded in chassis number order but they’ve definitely produced Heritage Certificates from just body numbers in the past. Someone I know got one for the Vita Buick Cooper which still has its original body number in situ which confirmed it was a 1963 Fiesta Yellow 1071.

[mnicoop63]

Thank you guys for the information. I thought I had read somewhere that they used to be able to find information based on the body number but don't any longer. I would think that is probably based on approach and asking if its possible. And reading some of the comments sounds promising. I will ask him to look at the triangular pieces for a possible stamp. Would that replace the plate screwed to the cowl? It appears to have original front and back aprons (I think that is what they are called below the bumpers) the front one is rounded at the corners instead of having the cutouts. I did notice though that where the bumpers bolt on are a bit different than my minis. There seems to be a bigger area near the corners on the shelf where they are spot welded together. My minis have a smaller rounded area where the bolt holes are. Just never seen one like it.

This is the FE number he sent and said it has spacing like how he typed it. FE 43 4568

My June 62 built Cooper does not have spacing between the letters or numbers and is almost exactly 101,000 lower with an FE number of 333,497

Thanks again guys for the comments.

[mnicoop63]

For anybody who might be curious I asked the owner to sand the plate on the slam panel and he didn't want to because he was sure that there wasn't one because he couldn't see one thru the paint. After explaining to him that several minis I have had in the past that the number could not be seen thru a coat or two of paint and had to be sanded he decided to sand. Much to his amazement there is a number. It is A012602. I believe that would make it a 1963 built 997 Cooper?

[dodge44]

As it's an early Cooper have you tried looking at the bulkhead stiffener for the chassis number? Vis : http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24041

[rogerotto66s]

Same topic different question.

A friend has a Heritage Certificate for a NOV 1966 Austin Cooper S which says engine was replaced prior to leaving the factory. Has anyone heard of this and what would the circumstances have been to indicate this? Engine number in car does agree with the Certificate.

[roger mcnab]

hi engine could have failed under test maybe moving from assembly to storage prior to being shipped to dealer
cheers roger mcnab

[Pete]

Same topic different question.

A friend has a Heritage Certificate for a NOV 1966 Austin Cooper S which says engine was replaced prior to leaving the factory. Has anyone heard of this and what would the circumstances have been to indicate this? Engine number in car does agree with the Certificate.

If you look at old photos at Longbridge you often see cars pulled at the end of the line presumably requiring remedial work. I had a Mk3 S that needed a gold seal engine within a very short space of time when new.

[mab01uk]

Same topic different question.

A friend has a Heritage Certificate for a NOV 1966 Austin Cooper S which says engine was replaced prior to leaving the factory. Has anyone heard of this and what would the circumstances have been to indicate this? Engine number in car does agree with the Certificate.

If you look at old photos at Longbridge you often see cars pulled at the end of the line presumably requiring remedial work. I had a Mk3 S that needed a gold seal engine within a very short space of time when new.

I visited the Longbridge Mini and Metro production lines a couple of times for tours with the MCR back in the 1980's and as Pete says cars were pulled at the end of the line for remedial work to rectify any faults found after failing any of the various final quality and functional tests. Minor issues were fixed on the spot and cars quickly returned to the final sign off area, while more serious faults were diverted off for further investigation.
Some remedial problems back in the day may also have been due to the legendary 'Friday Afternoon' built cars or those built during a component supplier strike or 'working to rule' dispute....

[360gts]

Same topic different question.

A friend has a Heritage Certificate for a NOV 1966 Austin Cooper S which says engine was replaced prior to leaving the factory. Has anyone heard of this and what would the circumstances have been to indicate this? Engine number in car does agree with the Certificate.

This absolutely correct....the ledgers would have this written in on the column saying 'engine changed' ....engine replaced....etc.
Way back many eons ago when you were allowed to view your VIN in the ledger....I saw this on an S I owned. BTW, the ledgers are now very safely secured from public viewing due to all the 'fakes' that were being built.

[Tim]

In the legend of the development of the 4WD rallycross Mini, it was built by cannabilising the prototype 4WD Moke, which was being used at Abingdon to tow non-starting cars off the end of the production line.

Tim

[mab01uk]

Longbridge CAB 1 RD (Mechanical Rectification Dept.)
All Coopers had a 10 mile road test and fault sheet on return for rectifications:-


https://www.facebook.com/AustinExAppren ... cale=en_GB