by worksminis » 03 May 2017, 13:03
The first works "S".
Coupe des Alpes Jun 63. Aaltonen/Ambrose. Gp3. 1st O/A..
Tour de France Auto ("Le Tour Auto") Sep 63, Mayman/Domleo. Retd accident.
RAC Nov 63. Mayman/Domleo. 30th. New car?
Monte Carlo Jan 64. Mayman/Domleo. Retd accident (Mayman broken leg - retired from rallying). New car?
Written off.
277 EBL
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mk1
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Re: 277 EBL
Postby Orangebox » 28 May 2017, 11:03
Bonnet swop for the Monte, badged as an Austin. I reckon the original car on all the events.
Bonnet swop for the Monte, badged as an Austin. I reckon the original car on all the events.
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Re: 277 EBL
by worksminis » 27 May 2017, 15:12
Donc (well 3 of the 4 events were in France):
Results for all 4 events show a (1071) S, not a 997 Cooper.
Entry list for Le Tour Auto shows Christabel Carlisle as additional driver but she did not compete. For those unfamiliar with the format, 2 drivers were allowed and one or other would have been in the car with the co-driver on road sections (but driver only for the races).
A new car for the Monte (and written off, so no miraculous resurrections please).
Possibly not a new car for the RAC (only later was it the norm to build all new cars for the RAC) and new cars for the Monte was more likely.
A new race-orientated car for Le Tour Auto (or an ID swap).
Original (Coupe des Alpes) car again for the RAC?? (S with no S front badge, so some panel switching at least).
Any other thoughts?
Donc (well 3 of the 4 events were in France):
Results for all 4 events show a (1071) S, not a 997 Cooper.
Entry list for Le Tour Auto shows Christabel Carlisle as additional driver but she did not compete. For those unfamiliar with the format, 2 drivers were allowed and one or other would have been in the car with the co-driver on road sections (but driver only for the races).
A new car for the Monte (and written off, so no miraculous resurrections please).
Possibly not a new car for the RAC (only later was it the norm to build all new cars for the RAC) and new cars for the Monte was more likely.
A new race-orientated car for Le Tour Auto (or an ID swap).
Original (Coupe des Alpes) car again for the RAC?? (S with no S front badge, so some panel switching at least).
Any other thoughts?
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mk1
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Re: 277 EBL
Postby ADO50 » 27 May 2017, 09:56
Looking some photographs that I have, the 1963 Tour Auto car is not the same shell as the 1963 Coupe des Alpes car and the 1964 Rallye Monte car is a different one again.
Looking some photographs that I have, the 1963 Tour Auto car is not the same shell as the 1963 Coupe des Alpes car and the 1964 Rallye Monte car is a different one again.
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Re: 277 EBL
Postby worksminis » 21 May 2017, 09:46
Entry list now located - shows Class 3 (ie. more than 1000cc). Yet another anomaly resolved with books being incorrect...
Entry list now located - shows Class 3 (ie. more than 1000cc). Yet another anomaly resolved with books being incorrect...
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Re: 277 EBL
Postby worksminis » 20 May 2017, 22:35
That's what I always thought but all the authors think otherwise and it's photographed without an S badge on the front on the 63 RAC (although wheels could be 4.5"). What source ?
That's what I always thought but all the authors think otherwise and it's photographed without an S badge on the front on the 63 RAC (although wheels could be 4.5"). What source ?
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Re: 277 EBL
Postby worksminis » 20 May 2017, 12:22
Photos appear to confirm what Robson implies in his "Rally Giants" Cooper book:
A Cooper 997 for 63 RAC, a different car from the earlier 1071 S. Then the number reverted to the original 1071 S for 64 Monte.
ie. it was not the original car on the RAC, converted from 1071 S to 997 Cooper, as once suggested somewhere (though not major task to convert with the specs at that time), but it was the original car again as a 1071 S by the 64 Monte.
Which original 997 Cooper carried the 277EBL reg no on RAC? (photos not yet checked for this).
Price and Browning both imply it was a 1071 for the 63 RAC, which it clearly from one photo was not.
Photos appear to confirm what Robson implies in his "Rally Giants" Cooper book:
A Cooper 997 for 63 RAC, a different car from the earlier 1071 S. Then the number reverted to the original 1071 S for 64 Monte.
ie. it was not the original car on the RAC, converted from 1071 S to 997 Cooper, as once suggested somewhere (though not major task to convert with the specs at that time), but it was the original car again as a 1071 S by the 64 Monte.
Which original 997 Cooper carried the 277EBL reg no on RAC? (photos not yet checked for this).
Price and Browning both imply it was a 1071 for the 63 RAC, which it clearly from one photo was not.
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mk1
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Re: 277 EBL
by Orangebox » 18 May 2017, 19:45
As far as I can see EBL on the Monte was the original car, albeit with a bonnet change. Love the look of that car on the Alpine, 3.5 rims, early dash with no Halda, speedo in front of the navigator etc.
As far as I can see EBL on the Monte was the original car, albeit with a bonnet change. Love the look of that car on the Alpine, 3.5 rims, early dash with no Halda, speedo in front of the navigator etc.
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mk1
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Re: 277 EBL
Images
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SMOKE GREY
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Re: 277 EBL
277 EBL was run in the 64 Monte as 569FMO as stated in "Works minis in detail". its clear from these images, one showing EBL with no wheel carrier, and later the monte car 569FMO with wheel carrier, that they are one and the same car...
So the crashed car carrying 277EBL plate was the short lived new built 569FMO?
So the crashed car carrying 277EBL plate was the short lived new built 569FMO?
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Up North in Sheffield
Re: 277 EBL
The evolution of this registration is very complicated.
After much deliberation and study of photographs, I believe that the first built 277EBL/a that did the 63 Alpine Rally and 63 RAC, was re prepared internally, and became 569FMO on the 64 Monte. Later sold to Mike Wood as 569FMO.
The 277 EBL/b, which competed on the 63 Tour de France, was actually the new delivered 8 EMO, re plated immediately afterwards again as 8 EMO on the 63 RAC. It was later was run at Silverstone as AJB66B. But was then destruction tested at Strata Florida Wales as 8 EMO again. 8EMO/b was later built new for the 1965 Monte Carlo.
The 277EBL that actually competed on the 64 Monte, and was burnt out, was 569FMO as delivered new, but run as 277EBL/c.
Quite happy to be proved wrong with further pictures.
After much deliberation and study of photographs, I believe that the first built 277EBL/a that did the 63 Alpine Rally and 63 RAC, was re prepared internally, and became 569FMO on the 64 Monte. Later sold to Mike Wood as 569FMO.
The 277 EBL/b, which competed on the 63 Tour de France, was actually the new delivered 8 EMO, re plated immediately afterwards again as 8 EMO on the 63 RAC. It was later was run at Silverstone as AJB66B. But was then destruction tested at Strata Florida Wales as 8 EMO again. 8EMO/b was later built new for the 1965 Monte Carlo.
The 277EBL that actually competed on the 64 Monte, and was burnt out, was 569FMO as delivered new, but run as 277EBL/c.
Quite happy to be proved wrong with further pictures.
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surfblue63
Re: 277 EBL
1963 Coupe des Alpes
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Last edited by surfblue63 on Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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surfblue63
Re: 277 EBL
1963 RAC
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surfblue63
Re: 277 EBL
1963 Tour de France
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