Front hub help!

[Dearg1275]

I am in trouble with a front hub on my S. There was some wear so disassembled and checked everything. The drive flange showed some early damage and the outer race of the Timken was blued. The hub seems fine. New drive flange, split washer and Timken roller bearing kit was ordered.

Today, using the method described by Spider on here, I checked the fixed spacer in the hub and this measured out at 10.36 mm. I think the limits suggested were 10.2 to 10.4 mm. The outer races went in the hub nice and tight. All torqued up, including torquing it up with a thick washer prior to fitting the split washer, and the slack has gone. But the wheel is stiff to turn. In fact it gets increasingly stiff as I increase the torque on the nut.

This suggests to me that the middle spacer is undersized and I can’t think of a way to get round the problem. So HELP!

David

[rich@minispares.com]

new hub.......


I have learnt that when ever there is damage to a bearing, drive flange etc to swop the hub as part of the 'service operation'

the bearings are so hard and when they spin or shuffle they just eat the hub

[Dearg1275]

Rich,

I don’t follow. Probably because it has been a frustrating morning. If the outer races have spun and chewed the fixed spacer in the hub then it would have become thinner. Surely this would make the assembly appear slack not tight?
D

[Peter Laidler]

IF the inner spacer has been rubbed and the thickness has worn down then the taper roller (the TR's) cones - the inner parts will be drawn CLOSER together. Closer together = TIGHTER = excess friction = not good.

I am writing up an easily read paper on rear hubs and bearings at the moment with help and a sponsorship from Timken plus research done elsewhere but in short outer bearings (or cups in TR sets) don't spin as such, they usually chatter their way around...... Won't go any further there except to say that they say if the difference between the TR cup and hub is .004 or less, then it can successfully be locked in place with bearing lock providing that............ and....

All things being equal and keeping this answer simple, you need to INCREASE the width of the inner spacer. Depending whether you have spaced inner cones or a separate steel spacer then I would cut out and put a spacer (I'd start at .004 as a simple starting point) between the inbuilt spacered cups or machine a slightly wider separate spacer. Dead simple to machine. It is said that the spacer is made of special this that and the other. I say, based on simple metallurgy that it's just good quality mild steel. But you ain't going to compress it!

Don't despair Dave, it's a simple fix. If you lived closer we'd have it done by tea time!

[rich@minispares.com]

the races also rub the bridge part in the hub, so that becomes thinner, so the outer races sit closer together

[Dearg1275]

Problem solved. I didn’t check for stupidity! It turned out to be the disc shield trapped between the hub and the disc that was causing the rotational resistance.
D

[CooperTune]

I do a lot of hubs so I have a fixture I can mount in the big vise on the 400 lb. welding table. ( bought all the scrap material for the table by the lb. ) Mounting the hub by the caliper ears I can mount a dial indicator for checking. I have kept all the spacer from past jobs and they are all over the place in thickness. Try the one you removed if not thrown away. As mentioned I keep a length of good quality mild steel tubing and part spacer in the lathe as required if nothing on hand works. I also have several sliding front windows with different grade emery spray glued for fine finishing. If the races are in fact tight in the hub I'd use it, I do not glue races into hubs they just don't cost that much. Steve (CTR)

Only reason I mention the weight of table is it don't move when I torque ball joints over and over till I have the feel I like. I use the same CV for setting up bearings or the new ones if not fitted to an axle yet.

[Spider]

new hub.......

I have learnt that when ever there is damage to a bearing, drive flange etc to swop the hub as part of the 'service operation'

the bearings are so hard and when they spin or shuffle they just eat the hub

Generally Rich, I would agree here, but a horn hub, from my experience, will only result in the bearing being slack and giving play. I've not had one get tight from this and I'm not all too sure how it would get tight.

Problem solved. I didn’t check for stupidity! It turned out to be the disc shield trapped between the hub and the disc that was causing the rotational resistance.
D

Never assume anything - check everything !!

Good work, glad you got a good result.

I gotta say though, that I'm none too keen on the disc shields. I don't usually fit them unless it's a period restoration. I find that they can trap stones and the mounts on them crack and break.

[rich@minispares.com]

They go tight when the bearings get hot from spinning in the hub and collapse!!!!

[Guywilko]

Rich

Are the minispares GHK1018 cooper disc bearings decent /within tolerance etc...?

The 2nd picture shows a split ring - where does this go?

cheers Guy

[rich@minispares.com]

Rich

Are the minispares GHK1018 cooper disc bearings decent /within tolerance etc...?

The 2nd picture shows a split ring - where does this go?

cheers Guy

the split washer is the spacer fro the rear oil seal

the current batch of GHK1018 do seem ok, there are some terrible cheap ones floating around though.

[Spider]

The 2nd picture shows a split ring - where does this go?

cheers Guy

As Rich mentioned. This cross section may also help, item 8;-

[Peter Laidler]

Bearings. Just specify TIMKEN I say (other top quality are also available) but check the hologram thinggy on the box is intact. Remember that it's just like shopping at Marks and Spencer. You get just what you pay for

[rich@minispares.com]

Bearings. Just specify TIMKEN I say (other top quality are also available) but check the hologram thinggy on the box is intact. Remember that it's just like shopping at Marks and Spencer. You get just what you pay for

timkin have discontinued the GHK1018 ball bearing type, so it will be a real struggle to find some

occasionally RHP ones turn up on ebay

[Peter Laidler]

While we're here....... Does anyone have a cross sectioned/side elevation of the standard 998 drive, disc and hub as shown in Spiders Cooper S side elevation. Did such a thing ever appear in any of the usual BMC/BL publications? Never seen one

[Dan Tweed grey]

Just done discs and bearings on mine and had issues, turned out to be the new 7" discs had a lip that rubbed on the hub.
Filled the lip off and all was good.
The brand was TROY , as were the bearings...

[Guywilko]

Thanks Rich and Spider

[Peter Laidler]

Like Coopertune (first page) I made a littl;e gadget to use when setting up the hubs. Got an old CV joint, cleaned it out, stripped it and welded a slab of 1/4" steel plate about 3" long to the open bell-end. You can put this slab of steel into a good bench vice, splines upwards and slide the hub, bearings and flange onto it. Easy to get bearing spacer exact and rotate it all at the same time. Put the disc on and you can check for clearance too. Doing it this way it's the hub (11-spiders end elevation) that rotates instead of the CV and flange but the result is the same. Only done a few in my lifetime of course but it works for me......, and cheap too!