1965 Mk1 road/rally Bitsa, (now supercharged 8 port)

[Richspec]

thanks Graham
I think us northerners would melt in 40 deg heat!

The injectors are the short Pico style, the supplied ones i have are IWP164 which is 190cc which will generally be ok up to 115bhp.
On the 1380 arden we ran into fuel supply issues and it was suspected to be pump or injectors so i changed both. I cant remember exactly what we fitted but it may be the same as i have here, IWP006 - 226cc
These are from a Citroen Saxo which is a 120bhp 1600cc engine, via ebay.

Talking to my brother last night he says thats what we fitted to his 1380 8 port as well.

Rich

[graham in aus]

Thanks for the info, I can see IWP006 are available over here, still got to chose a local ECU for ease of tuning, probably going to go Haltech.

Must get saving!

Cheers!

Graham

[Richspec]

Progress of the last few days:

Rocker spacing sorted by getting two different spacer kits from Rich at MS, and moving some rockers about.
Exhaust being a ballache, needed cutting, sleeving and welding to work, took me all of yesterday to get it on. Absolutely knackered last night after working under the car so much and swinging a big hammer in little space. ITS VERY TIGHT, due to minor misalignment in the Y piece.
Head torqued down and water and oil added, only a minor water leak to deal with this morning.

Today tried setting the tappets, realised the MED pushrods were too long and holding the valves open, 'click' as piston met valve as you turned it over (by pushing).

Swapped back to standard pushrods, and the rocker locknuts on the adjuster are very close to the end of the thread (some more than others as I have different length valves) but no more valve to piston contact

Setting the tappets starting to make more sense but theres a tight spot somewhere, with something that i really struggle to push the car past, (its like pushing past mega high compression...but theres no plugs in!) so I totally ran out of energy to push the car about anymore and called it a night.

The plan is/was to have first fireup on Christmas day. Also got two more build vids to edit and upload yet before the grand finale.

[Richspec]

Jobs buggered, everything is in and set ready to go bar a set of plug leads to make up and I cannot set the tappets, the valves are hitting the piston, I'm thinking the vernier timing has slipped, that's the only explanation I can think of.

[graham in aus]

Without stating the bl##ding obvious, you do have an 8 port cam ?.......

I think in the last you tube video you said you did have clearance before so something must have moved....

B#gger !

[Richspec]

well it had the right part number and the box said 8 port! AND i had to clearance the rod bolts from the cam lobes.

but as you say i did test it early on with plasticene on the pistons and it didnt get marked? Bit confused at the moment, as soon as i'm well enough (got a bad cold, just in time for going back to work!!) I'll do some more testing before i rip it apart.

[Richspec]

Video part 10 is up: it says it all really.
https://youtu.be/arAfXk_Zcrg

thinks I've found out since, the cam timing is actually spot on , all the inlets have touched , 38mm inlet valves arent easier to find but i might be in luck.

[minimans]

I'm sorry to see your troubles mate, do you know if it was the valve timing or valve to piston clearance that is the problem? On my Arden I'm fighting the fact that I only have 11cc in the chamber and will have to use a 120thou cometic gasket to even stand a chance with the Sprint cam I have. not sure what gasket your using but the cometic comes in stock sizes and oversize bore and thickness. I have been told by them that they will build a gasket to order to su

[timmy201]

Rich, REC have some large valves listed:
REC 118 - Cooper ‘S’ Mk2 / Midget / Sprite - 1.480”/37.6mm Inlet - Undercut Stem, Single Groove
REC 111 - Cooper ‘S’ Mk2 / Midget / Sprite - 1.525”/38.75mm Inlet - Single Groove

http://www.gsvalves.co.uk/assets/recmas ... alogue.pdf

[Richspec]

I think i caused the damage when i first tightened the head down, i had the long med pushrods in and the rockers were set way off so the valves were fully open, more so than they should have been, and i just nipped the valve. The marks on the other pistons were caused by me pushing the car back and forth till they hit the valve.
Tonight i've spent hours perusing the web and i have some options for fresh valves. Ferrari 250 GTO ones are looking to be an exact match.

Also earlier i put the head back on, set the tappets for cyl 1 and 4 and turned the engine over no problems at all.

[minimans]

Rich, REC have some large valves listed:
REC 118 - Cooper ‘S’ Mk2 / Midget / Sprite - 1.480”/37.6mm Inlet - Undercut Stem, Single Groove
REC 111 - Cooper ‘S’ Mk2 / Midget / Sprite - 1.525”/38.75mm Inlet - Single Groove

http://www.gsvalves.co.uk/assets/recmas ... alogue.pdf

These would be no good as the 8 port valves are different than stock valves.

[minimans]

I think i caused the damage when i first tightened the head down, i had the long med pushrods in and the rockers were set way off so the valves were fully open, more so than they should have been, and i just nipped the valve. The marks on the other pistons were caused by me pushing the car back and forth till they hit the valve.
Tonight i've spent hours perusing the web and i have some options for fresh valves. Ferrari 250 GTO ones are looking to be an exact match.

Also earlier i put the head back on, set the tappets for cyl 1 and 4 and turned the engine over no problems at all.

Ah I see, If you have problems with the valves, Manley over here in the states will make valves to a pattern or drawing and they weren't that bad considering, about $55 each luckily my head retains Std valves so got them from Minispares

[Richspec]

the 250 gto ones arent available but they do have some at 97mm long, 8mm stem, £45 each.
I'll have to check my stem size before taking the plunge one way or the other.

[GraemeC]

Presumably if you run shorter valves you can go back to the long push rods to compensate (assuming all the geometry stacks up).
Maybe the 'longer than normal' valves were actually the issue, not the 8 port push rods?

[rich@minispares.com]

Presumably if you run shorter valves you can go back to the long push rods to compensate (assuming all the geometry stacks up).
Maybe the 'longer than normal' valves were actually the issue, not the 8 port push rods?

running shorter valves will make it go coil bound on the springs, so you then need to drop the valve springs into the head,which then makes the head to thin, which pulls the springs through the head....

its turtles all the way down!........

much easier to get a new valve made


its not going to make rich feel any better, but he is the second person this week who has done this - other one was a five port where the owner fitted a new head and 1.5 rockers with the adjuster screws screwed all the way in, was merrily nipping the head down when there was a huge 'BANG' as the rocker screw failed and he ended up with a bent pushrod as well. i suggested the valve was most likely bent (ot it was at least worth taking the head off to check), to be told that 'no chance'.......

we will see......

[midasmk1]

I did exactly the above, felt like a right tit.

Torqued head down with all the 1.5 rockers adjusted loose, only to find one was tight. Bent a new MED super dooper pushrod and bent a valve >_<



Car looks great, think I was parked opposite you (sort of) on the Thistle Run last year.

[Richspec]

Yes I'm not the only one thats done this

We all make mistakes, painful and / or expensive ones at times though!

[Richspec]

Valves ordered

Found a set on G&S that might work as well, off a Hart 420.

[minimans]

I get my block back next week so I'm ready to trial fit the rotating assembly, at least I shall not do same thing thanks to your experience Rich! I also have the long push rods which I don't think I shall need now as my head has been skimmed so much? Anyway thanks for posting your woe's rich it will help others avoid problems............Paul

[Richspec]

You can try the rods but make sure the rockers are slacked off and the pistons are out of the way first!
Don't forget my head appears to be some random, maybe 1 off casting!

There was a situation way back where you had to use standard rods and extended adjusters.
However the adjusters in the new 8 port rocker assembly look the same length as those I have already, which i thought were longer ones. so now I'm just unsure!

As mine sits now the standard pushrod plus the 8P rockers works, the adjuster locknut is still on the threads of the adjuster.
Which seems ok.

When i tried the MED long pushrods the adjusters were pretty much screwed up as far as they would go so the ball end was just about touching the rocker arm.

So: old head = standard pushrods?
and new thicker heads = new longer pushrods, the early 90's castings are somewhere in the middle where either might work!