1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
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1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Hello all
Prompted by Andy's Cox GTM rebuild thread I thought I would start one of my own on my own car, It is a long term thing that first started back at the end of 2014 shortly after my Father passed away. I decided that it was time I did something about a long held ambition to build my self an historic race car. Back in 87 (I was 14) my Father and I built a Lancia Fulvia to go racing, we followed that on with a Fairthorpe in which we eventually competed in FIA GTS, Dad did everything, and I have always wanted to carry on as it was great fun and taught me a lot.
Forward wind to 2014 and I was thinking what car to do it with, I didn't really want to retrace the Fairthorpe path, but wanted to get something as unusual and easy to get parts! This is where I alighted on the GTM, I put out some feelers on the GTM forum, not expecting to find one easily but within a few months I was hauling a very rusty tub and dusty body out of a barn in Cambridgeshire!
This went straight into a storage unit in Essex as I had a house to rebuild and a workshop to build at the bottom of my garden...
6 months later and everything was ready, in the meantime I had inspected the tub properly and found it beyond repair, the floor was completely gone and the rest was very heavily patched and bodged up, with my background in fabrication I decided to measure it and start drawing up all the panels to build a new tub. Luckily Derek Hambly had in the mean time brought all the goods and chattels of the GTM, and was offering to build a new tub on the original jig for a very reasonable sum, a no brainer really, so I put in my order. In the intervening period I started collecting up the parts needed such as subframes and suspension parts. I also had to look at the problem of rear steer.
The original Cox GTM had 2 Mini front subframes bolted into the monocoque, one at the front had standard Mini components but the lower arms were lengthened to allow for the lack of an engine. At the rear the steering arms were locked off with a ball joint attached back to the subframe to stop the hub rotating, this was all very well in theory but in practice the steering arm would bend under load and the car would "rear steer" when you were pressing on in a corner, not very good!
Later when Howard Heerey took over the business he changed to a lower reverse wishbone
The trouble is that the alignment bolts only "bear" on the hub so were prone to working loose and then you get rear steer, also the carrier is not really man enough so would bend.
I did not want this to happen on my racer for obvious reasons! I also wanted to keep the basic design.
what I came up with was a carrier that was thicker (10mm plate instead of 8mm) and that bolted through the 2 holes that hold on the brake back plates, Heerey also offered a fully adjustable racing version of the GTM called the "Club 90" with rose joints everywhere, as this was to be a road car as well I decided to keep the rubber bushes but make the inboard bush adjustable. Hopefully this should stop the rear steer.
Next up is the Gear change...
Prompted by Andy's Cox GTM rebuild thread I thought I would start one of my own on my own car, It is a long term thing that first started back at the end of 2014 shortly after my Father passed away. I decided that it was time I did something about a long held ambition to build my self an historic race car. Back in 87 (I was 14) my Father and I built a Lancia Fulvia to go racing, we followed that on with a Fairthorpe in which we eventually competed in FIA GTS, Dad did everything, and I have always wanted to carry on as it was great fun and taught me a lot.
Forward wind to 2014 and I was thinking what car to do it with, I didn't really want to retrace the Fairthorpe path, but wanted to get something as unusual and easy to get parts! This is where I alighted on the GTM, I put out some feelers on the GTM forum, not expecting to find one easily but within a few months I was hauling a very rusty tub and dusty body out of a barn in Cambridgeshire!
This went straight into a storage unit in Essex as I had a house to rebuild and a workshop to build at the bottom of my garden...
6 months later and everything was ready, in the meantime I had inspected the tub properly and found it beyond repair, the floor was completely gone and the rest was very heavily patched and bodged up, with my background in fabrication I decided to measure it and start drawing up all the panels to build a new tub. Luckily Derek Hambly had in the mean time brought all the goods and chattels of the GTM, and was offering to build a new tub on the original jig for a very reasonable sum, a no brainer really, so I put in my order. In the intervening period I started collecting up the parts needed such as subframes and suspension parts. I also had to look at the problem of rear steer.
The original Cox GTM had 2 Mini front subframes bolted into the monocoque, one at the front had standard Mini components but the lower arms were lengthened to allow for the lack of an engine. At the rear the steering arms were locked off with a ball joint attached back to the subframe to stop the hub rotating, this was all very well in theory but in practice the steering arm would bend under load and the car would "rear steer" when you were pressing on in a corner, not very good!
Later when Howard Heerey took over the business he changed to a lower reverse wishbone
The trouble is that the alignment bolts only "bear" on the hub so were prone to working loose and then you get rear steer, also the carrier is not really man enough so would bend.
I did not want this to happen on my racer for obvious reasons! I also wanted to keep the basic design.
what I came up with was a carrier that was thicker (10mm plate instead of 8mm) and that bolted through the 2 holes that hold on the brake back plates, Heerey also offered a fully adjustable racing version of the GTM called the "Club 90" with rose joints everywhere, as this was to be a road car as well I decided to keep the rubber bushes but make the inboard bush adjustable. Hopefully this should stop the rear steer.
Next up is the Gear change...
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
What a great project!
Thanks for posting it here.
I really like your solution to the rear steer problem & look forward to other innovations too.
It's great to hear that tubs are available again & at a reasonable price too.
Thanks for posting it here.
I really like your solution to the rear steer problem & look forward to other innovations too.
It's great to hear that tubs are available again & at a reasonable price too.
- AndyB72
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Great stuff, that definitely looks man enough for the job!
I look forward to seeing your solution to the gear linkage. I went for the rossabitz kit but have heard it can flex.
Funnily enough I should be finishing off fitting the kit tomorrow night on mine.
I look forward to seeing your solution to the gear linkage. I went for the rossabitz kit but have heard it can flex.
Funnily enough I should be finishing off fitting the kit tomorrow night on mine.
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
This is looking really promising, what a great project! - please keep us up to date.
- rich@minispares.com
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
I personally would get rid of the back to front 'a' arms and buy a steering lock off kit from Rossabitz and convert the rear to normal mini stuff - or try and find one of a later gtm
it all works well, makes adjusting the suspension easy and the steering lock off kit makes setting the toe dead easy - its a five minute job once its all fitted
my gtm had the 'a' arms on and I found that it was impossible to be sure that both the bolts that held the hub in the right 'toe' where equally tight (as they are so close to the centre line of the car and close to the hubs), it would always start to rear steer as they unwound themselves.
my car was utterly lethal to drive, swopped it to the decent stuff, set it up, corner weighted it and its now mighty, makes a fantastic track car and ive hill climbed it with no issues (bar the lack of top end!)
there is a suggestion that the steering arm kits introduce bumpsteer, but I have found that there is so little suspension movement in the rear that its virtually unnoticeable, and if a sudden suspension bump introduces any then its not enough to give the driver any issues.
round the flat out bend at Blyton my gtm would just start to drift the back end out as the car settled down onto its bump stops, so I guess a tiny of toe out was getting introduced into the mix - but I found it was certainly nothing to worry about.
ive also had no issues with the Rossabitz gear linkage - bar when I got it he had made one bit 90deg out of sync, then tried to claim that nothing was wrong with it! once it was sorted its been perfectly fine, though I did fit the Minispares lower backwards facing gearbox steady's as I found that the engine was moving a little
it all works well, makes adjusting the suspension easy and the steering lock off kit makes setting the toe dead easy - its a five minute job once its all fitted
my gtm had the 'a' arms on and I found that it was impossible to be sure that both the bolts that held the hub in the right 'toe' where equally tight (as they are so close to the centre line of the car and close to the hubs), it would always start to rear steer as they unwound themselves.
my car was utterly lethal to drive, swopped it to the decent stuff, set it up, corner weighted it and its now mighty, makes a fantastic track car and ive hill climbed it with no issues (bar the lack of top end!)
there is a suggestion that the steering arm kits introduce bumpsteer, but I have found that there is so little suspension movement in the rear that its virtually unnoticeable, and if a sudden suspension bump introduces any then its not enough to give the driver any issues.
round the flat out bend at Blyton my gtm would just start to drift the back end out as the car settled down onto its bump stops, so I guess a tiny of toe out was getting introduced into the mix - but I found it was certainly nothing to worry about.
ive also had no issues with the Rossabitz gear linkage - bar when I got it he had made one bit 90deg out of sync, then tried to claim that nothing was wrong with it! once it was sorted its been perfectly fine, though I did fit the Minispares lower backwards facing gearbox steady's as I found that the engine was moving a little
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Rich
I agree that the reverse wishbone is basically flawed, the bearing bolts idea is a bad one. That is why I have redesigned the lower bracket to fix that issue hopefully, I also have an adjustable inner bush and tie bars so that should help with set up. The weakness is the mounting at the hub not the wishbone itself I think. As for the gear linkage, I have basically copied the later GTM linkage, just changed the parts to make it hopefully more reliable.
I agree that the reverse wishbone is basically flawed, the bearing bolts idea is a bad one. That is why I have redesigned the lower bracket to fix that issue hopefully, I also have an adjustable inner bush and tie bars so that should help with set up. The weakness is the mounting at the hub not the wishbone itself I think. As for the gear linkage, I have basically copied the later GTM linkage, just changed the parts to make it hopefully more reliable.
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Thanks for all your comments, this is a difficult project to get right so any advice is very welcome!
Well the next issue I wanted to improve was the gear change, given that I wanted a competition car, the change needed to be good, and reliable.
The car came with a later mini rod box gear stick and housing so I stuck with that, after some research the general consensus seemed to be that the important thing was to directly link the gear change to the engine, that way when the engine moves the linkage goes with it, and stop the engine moving as best you can.
As you can see in the picture I built a transfer frame to take the selector rod (which had 2 UJ's spliced into it) down under the sump and connect to the spigot at the back of the gearbox. i have use 2 Igus PTFE bearings for it to run in and had a block machined that clamps onto the 12mm rod so I can adjust the linkage easily. The bored hole you see in the top of the block is what the 15mm tubing welds into that makes up the rear linkage. It seems to be working well so far, but I will know more when I fully set it up.
Well the next issue I wanted to improve was the gear change, given that I wanted a competition car, the change needed to be good, and reliable.
The car came with a later mini rod box gear stick and housing so I stuck with that, after some research the general consensus seemed to be that the important thing was to directly link the gear change to the engine, that way when the engine moves the linkage goes with it, and stop the engine moving as best you can.
As you can see in the picture I built a transfer frame to take the selector rod (which had 2 UJ's spliced into it) down under the sump and connect to the spigot at the back of the gearbox. i have use 2 Igus PTFE bearings for it to run in and had a block machined that clamps onto the 12mm rod so I can adjust the linkage easily. The bored hole you see in the top of the block is what the 15mm tubing welds into that makes up the rear linkage. It seems to be working well so far, but I will know more when I fully set it up.
- rich@minispares.com
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
The important thing with any rods that run under the box is to have them as snug and as smooth as possible.
They are vunerable to kerbs etc so you want anything that rubs the rod to be able to slide harmlessly along it.
Will discovered this in his nimbus when he ran over something and it smacked the rod backwards really hard. This snapped the 'sharks fin' off the operating rod inside the gearbox.
You also need to have some adjustability of the upper rod on the rod change as this sets the throw of the change. I had to mess with this quite a lot on my set up
They are vunerable to kerbs etc so you want anything that rubs the rod to be able to slide harmlessly along it.
Will discovered this in his nimbus when he ran over something and it smacked the rod backwards really hard. This snapped the 'sharks fin' off the operating rod inside the gearbox.
You also need to have some adjustability of the upper rod on the rod change as this sets the throw of the change. I had to mess with this quite a lot on my set up
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
You also need to have some adjustability of the upper rod on the rod change as this sets the throw of the change. I had to mess with this quite a lot on my set up
Yes that is right, that is why the transfer block is adjustable so I can get rid of any slack.
Yes that is right, that is why the transfer block is adjustable so I can get rid of any slack.
- nimbusprint
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
IMHO I'd go cable, everything off the shelf bar the brackets to take cable ends, and even MGF brackets will modify to fit. you can then spend as much or as little on cable quality/throw upgrades etc. and you get your ground clearance back. Oh, and ditch the reverse wishbones, for all the previously stated reasons, plus it will help reduce your unsprung weight.
cheers Ian.
cheers Ian.
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
I wish I could go cable but the regs don't allow me in the 70's Roadsports that I plan to enter, so I have to optimise the existing set up.
- nimbusprint
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
That's a bummer , I have never heard of regs being that strict about gear linkage mods the most I've come across in the 750 motor Club, in both road sport and sports specials, is the exclusion of sequential boxes and paddle shift systems in some classes. Might be worth having a chat with the formula rep. which club is running the series ??GTM71 wrote:I wish I could go cable but the regs don't allow me in the 70's Roadsports that I plan to enter, so I have to optimise the existing set up.
Good luck Ian
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
It is the Seventies Roadsports HSCC championship, the main reason I am attracted to it is that the regs are quite restrictive, so should keep the cost down, I'm doing it for fun and the experience, I expect the biggest restriction will me my lack of ability, not the car! they have an eligibility registrar so I have to get the car past him.
Here is the reg for Transmissions for example:
No modifications from original production specifications are permitted.
The gearbox must be as original.
Straight cut gears are not permitted unless fitted as original equipment.
The original clutch control system must not be modified.
So cables were not used on a Mini so can't be used on a 1971 GTM, if I had documented evidence that Cox or Heerey offered cables in period then fine, but of course I can't because they didn't.
I have a document that shows that HH offered adjustable suspension, so I can put that on, for example.
Here is the reg for Transmissions for example:
No modifications from original production specifications are permitted.
The gearbox must be as original.
Straight cut gears are not permitted unless fitted as original equipment.
The original clutch control system must not be modified.
So cables were not used on a Mini so can't be used on a 1971 GTM, if I had documented evidence that Cox or Heerey offered cables in period then fine, but of course I can't because they didn't.
I have a document that shows that HH offered adjustable suspension, so I can put that on, for example.
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
I am sure that on a car like a GTM you would be able to argue your case for a cable operated gear linkage. Almost every GTM had a different solution to this problem & unless you were to raise the issue yourself then I doubt anyone else would ever give it a second look.
Just my 2 pennorth.
Just my 2 pennorth.
- rich@minispares.com
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
I wouldn't worry too much about cables. The change on mine is perfect.
A gtm will be a great race car, they are no lighter than a mini, but they don't half put the power down and handle.
Your biggest issue will be the wind getting under the front at speed and making the steering go light. I think this is why the later front had the big air dam cast into it
A gtm will be a great race car, they are no lighter than a mini, but they don't half put the power down and handle.
Your biggest issue will be the wind getting under the front at speed and making the steering go light. I think this is why the later front had the big air dam cast into it
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
I agree Rich, the gear linkage I have set up on mine is very pricise for a 40 year old car, I will just have to keep off the kerbs!rich@minispares.com wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about cables. The change on mine is perfect.
A gtm will be a great race car, they are no lighter than a mini, but they don't half put the power down and handle.
Your biggest issue will be the wind getting under the front at speed and making the steering go light. I think this is why the later front had the big air dam cast into it
As for the suitability for racing, that was my thinking when I was looking for a small sports car to race, and a lot cheaper than a Unipower! I'm not sure how much lift at the front you would get, contemporary reports show the lift to start at fairly high speeds so on most British tracks you will be rarely up to those figures!
- nimbusprint
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
GTM71 wrote:It is the Seventies Roadsports HSCC championship, the main reason I am attracted to it is that the regs are quite restrictive, so should keep the cost down, I'm doing it for fun and the experience, I expect the biggest restriction will me my lack of ability, not the car! they have an eligibility registrar so I have to get the car past him.
Here is the reg for Transmissions for example:
No modifications from original production specifications are permitted.
The gearbox must be as original.
Straight cut gears are not permitted unless fitted as original equipment.
The original clutch control system must not be modified.
So cables were not used on a Mini so can't be used on a 1971 GTM, if I had documented evidence that Cox or Heerey offered cables in period then fine, but of course I can't because they didn't.
I have a document that shows that HH offered adjustable suspension, so I can put that on, for example.
Great selection of cars over the different classes, will you be out next season?.
Good luck Ian
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Yes, I like the structure of the series, as for being out next season? I make no promises!
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
Got some time over the weekend and last night so put in most of the holes for the plumbing and more paint on the tub so I could get the front subframe back in. I decided to increase the size of the tower bolts to 3/8 unf just to be super safe, M10 at the foot boards. The tank will sit in behind the box section cross member.
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Re: 1971 Heerey GTM Race Car Project
In an attempt to put a stop to the constant hole cutting in my GTM, i was wondering if any body had any ideas about where to put the MSA curcuit breaker on a GTM? I was thinking on the inside of the "wings" that slope back from the rear window. MSA says:
"The triggering system for the circuit breaker on saloons should be situated at the lower part of the windscreen mounting, preferably on the driver’s side or
below the rear window." I assume this applies to little plastic sports cars too...
What do you think?
Simon
"The triggering system for the circuit breaker on saloons should be situated at the lower part of the windscreen mounting, preferably on the driver’s side or
below the rear window." I assume this applies to little plastic sports cars too...
What do you think?
Simon