Three wheeler

[36inter]

I've posted a few questions over the last couple of months regarding LCB's and brakes because I know what a mine of information is available on this site, I did this without revealing why, Rich asked the other day what vehicle was I fitting the brakes to so I posted a picture, Rich asked why was it not in the "cars and projects" section, I'd not thought about it really, after all this is a MK1 site.

However it appears I have had a second 'like' so have decided to post details, please let me know either way if it is of interest, thanks.

It all started in the 60's, in motorcycle racing, in the sidecar class a gentleman by the name of Owen Greenwood took the rules to the limit, you had to have three wheels was basically it and what he built had three wheels. It was so disliked by the other sidecar drivers that after a number of wins it was relegated to the back of the grid, no matter where it qualified and after a couple of years it was banned completely by a change in the rules to specifically exclude it.

Even now it still rankles with a lot of people, they still hate it, I loved it, it was brilliant to watch.

A couple of pictures below give you an idea of what it was, there is also a photo of how it is now, completely refurbished but probably no one will let it race, they all still hate it.

This then has always been in the back of my mind, sometimes so far back its a wonder I got it started.

The original hasty layout for the machine was done by Mike Pilbeam in 1964.









So that is where my inspiration came from, but where and how to start!!!!!

So I went down to Waterstones and looked to see if they had anything, look what I found......



This is an interesting book with detail plans on how to build a sports car, that was my starting point, it enabled me to build the centre chassis with the knowledge that it would be a sound design, the major problem however is that is was for 4 wheels, rear wheel drive and a low inline engine. Mine was going to be three wheels with a high transverse engine and front wheel drive, so the brain had to be engaged.

Although inspired by Owen's three wheeler mine was for use on the road so it had to be a little more conventional in the cockpit area to allow for side by side seating.

So I had to design the front of the chassis to take a Mini subframe and the back to fit a single wheel, this was a number of years ago and it has only been in the last 18 months that I have put some real time into it.

First I had to power wire brush the basic chassis as I had left it so long it was going rusty, then give it a coat of rust proof paint, it came up really well.

Rusty


De-rusted and painted, I had also removed the centre rails as they were for the transmission tunnel for rear wheel drive.


My early attempt and first big mistake, I had assumed the suspension towers were vertical, one of many dumb ass assumptions, so the front had to be altered to lean it all back....


As you can see the gear stick is about three feet from where I need it, more thought to be applied.

I will keep posting to bring it up to date.

[InimiaD]

Your project floats my boat Pete.
It's powered by an A series and it's a spaceframe with a good racing pedigree with a slight twist.
I can now understand the clearance / height issue with the master cylinder. It all makes sense now.

[smithyrc30]

As you can see the gear stick is about three feet from where I need it, more thought to be applied.

Maybe use a rod change box and lengthen the rods?

[mk1]

What a cracking project. I'm always very happy to see something a bit different. This is a LOT different!

M

[Pandora]

It's certainly that! (I'd be tempted to keep it a 4 wheeler though)

For the gear change, can you get away with heating the lever and bending it near the base to crank the angle to bring it towards the lower seating position? I bent and cut down the lever on the clubmans car as it would have fouled the dash.

Al

[rich@minispares.com]

lengthening a remote is easy, after all GTM did it with the Cox (all be it in front of the engine)

you just saw the alloy bit in two, move the gearlever to where you want it and extend the change rod to suit - it doesn't matter that the two alloy parts are no longer connected together as long as the engine isn't flopping around - the two alloy parts hold the gear change rod and allow it to work fine.

as for masters, you could always use one of those double cylinder pedal boxes that let you get the brake balance as well - ive seen them used on GTM Coupes before and they only have about 4" height and you can use remote fillers on them if needs must.

I really like this project!

[36inter]

Was going to post some more pics but Photobucket is down so maybe tomorrow, ah well.

Pete

[JohnA]

The original car had 4 wheels i think the centres had to be no more than 8" apart

He used mini radius arms reversed so the arms were on the outside of the wheels.

[Pandora]

When he was my boss, Alan Riach, who designed the Sprintex Supercharger as fitted to Kev's Maguire (which his company FTD also sponsored) told me there were 2 engineering fundamentals which I should never forget:

1. You cannot push on a rope (this isn't actually true, as you can use it to pull things together, so he greed to achange this to you cannot push along a rope)

2. Milking stools teach you all you need to know about stability - if you fit 3 legs to a chair, it cannot wobble, so 3 points of contact, theoretically, are best.

This photo has just proved him wrong on that point too. I'll stick to a wheel in each of the 4 corners.

(I know, plenty minis have rolled too)

Al

[minimans]

Driving that looks to be as easy as standing on your head............................................

[36inter]

This shows Owen in action for the camera and explains the double back wheels.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/car-o ... ry/sidecar

[36inter]

Rich, never even knew you could extend the remote, learn something new every day. As it happens since the time when the picture was taken showing the remote I have taken out the sections that created the transmission tunnel, I was originally going to use that for the exhaust but it made the cockpit a bit narrow for my fat arse and would have created a lot of cabin heat.

To replace some strength I ran 1.5" box down the middle from front to back, the effectively stopped any idea of exhaust under the car or a remote, so I went a different way, with the exhaust and the gearchange.



The exhaust is only roughed out at the moment as the mandrel bend supplied were not made properly and there was nearly 3mm difference in diameter between the straight and the bend, I am awaiting replacements but roughed the layout in the meantime. I did pose a question on the forum in December about pipe lengths for this purpose and was pointed in the direction of Vizards book for the information, I have all his books only this numnuts never thought of looking, lengths now correct, just waiting for new pipe.

The gear stick is as per 2CV and uses at the moment a steering arm, I have removed the splined shaft from an old steering rack, cut off the worm gear and welded it into the steering arm this then fits into the upside down steering column that you can see at the dash (dash is temporary by the way) it all runs direct into the box and is made up of Steering columns, box section and UJ's, we did use this system on a friends grass track car and it worked fine, its very direct so I hope its ok for the road. I have actually added another joint just before the first UJ, the same again as at the gear stick, this allows me to completely dismantle it all.



The engine I built in 1978 for a fast road mini, 115 mph down hill with the wind behind me but it kept blowing head gaskets, the mixture was all wrong, I then decided to race it and took it to Aldons in Brierley Hill, they were I think the people to see at that time, The engine runs Triumph Spitfire pistons shortened by 1/2", 4 sync straight cut box with Salisbury LSD, 1:1.04 s/c drop gears, a 544 timed at 106 deg and 10.1 comp ratio. The head was modified by me following Vizards info, the results are attached, forgive me if I have posted this before.



Here's the engine running early on in the build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdArFOT3Q4

Here is the old bus when racing and it was good enough to take me to a few wins, please excuse an old man from bragging but they were enjoyable times.





More to follow if that's okay.

[36inter]

Early stages with a still rusty chassis, this was fabricating the lower rear subframe to chassis mounts.





This is the top shocker mount and the front subframe support with a further support back to the chassis to create a load path.



Steering rack mountings, I cut the floor from an old Mini to get the section that the rack fixed to and then seam welded it for strength, however I have not been entirely happy with this and intend to machine up some replacements from aluminium billet.







I finally power brushed the chassis, this was before painting when I was looking at fitting the 1.5" box section to replace some strength after removing the transmission tunnel. Radius arm is Metro.



Freshly painted with Hammerite anti rust undercoat.



Setting up the spine rail, rear suspension supports and radius arm location. I have also added an additional support from halfway down the spine tube up to the front just to add a bit of triangular strength.



After setting up the rear framework and it was sat on its wheels I gave some thought to bodywork shape, I know, a bit late in the day and I decided I would like a curved top. So I laid out some string and wire curves, this resulted in cock up number two, the rear bulkhead immediately behind the driver had a square finish to the top as per the Ron Champion book and would not do for a rounded top, so, out came the grinder to cut up what I had not long finished.



All re-done.



Seat framework was next, I would have liked to fit two diagonals but one of the came right under the bolt hole of the seat frame so I had to stagger them and add smaller cross supports, it works alright but it looks a bit Heath Robinson, I might revisit that, possibly....



This is where I was in the Autumn last year, more catch up photo's to come before we are up to date.

Any/all comments will be most welcome, apart from the centre section of the chassis which I must credit Ron Champions book with the rest has been a make it up as you go along with many a three forward two back step dance.

Pete

[36inter]

Here is a bit more background to the story, I built the main part of the chassis about 14 years ago or so, then work took over and the house and family and the chassis hung in my garage roof gathering dust and rust. About 5 years ago after I had retired I got back into my Motorcycles and the chassis went even further back in
my plan of things, so I thought I would not bother with it and perhaps buy one instead, save all the hassle. So had a look on Fleabay and eventually this popped up..





Ignore the reg number, the previous owner has had it back, its Metro based, built in the early 90's as I understand and is registered as a Trident. I picked it up just outside York which I think is Mark and Rich's territory, correct me if I am wrong. I collected it and drove it home, it was supposed to be all sorted, not. I got home having removed nearly all the rubber from the tyres, there was at least 3mm of tread when I left York for Bristol...



That was just the start, it has 2" of toe-in, The CV nut was loose, top and bottom swivel joint nuts were loose with no lock washers and worst of all the bolts holding the steering arm to the hub were odd and loose, the short one had pulled out the few threads it had been biting on and the whole lot was moving and I drove home with it like that....scary.



I had to check it all and found many horrors, front brake caliper bleed nipples sheared, rusty wheel bearings, track control arms rubbing on the sub frame



Worst of all, it had been in a flood at some time, the "gentleman" I bought it from lived by a river..... that would explain all the rust everywhere, the rear brake plate was appalling and the radius arm had rust that came off in huge lumps, the brake drum showed witness to have been stood in water..









So although I managed to sort most of it out there was still a lot of rust, on the chassis too. So I was really back to square one, this three wheeler was not going to last long having been flooded.

That left me with dragging out my chassis, cleaning it up and continuing with the build. What my "Noddy car", the Grandkids called it that, has done though has given me a different point of view to my build, especially in the use of half inch box section, so mine has now assumed the role of a replacement chassis for Noddy, I will be using a number of components from it, but not the Morris 1000 front wheels, trust me.


The more I look at these photo's its a wonder I got home.

More to follow.

Pete

[36inter]

Two pictures have disappeared, no idea why but here they are again, a rusty chassis, to continue with it or no was the question at this time



The other one that is missing is me kicking up some dust.





Pete

[rich@minispares.com]

however I have not been entirely happy with this and intend to machine up some replacements from aluminium billet.

1100s use a alloy spacer like that, it goes between the rack and the flat floor, so may be a ready made part for you (I bet its the wrong thickness though)

[rich@minispares.com]

Worst of all, it had been in a flood at some time,

that maybe explains why it was called a Trident........

[36inter]

Good point Rich, the Trident I mean, gave me a chuckle. I will look at finding those rack mountings but they are probably like hens teeth now.

Pete

[36inter]

Found some hens teeth and ordered 2.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262204151709? ... EBIDX%3AIT

[36inter]

Pictures of the pedal box and throttle pedal mounting plus adjustable stop for the throttle pedal and cable stop.









Looks like I will need a "power bulge" to clear the brake master cylinder and a "modification" to the clutch master cylinder to clear the brake pipes.