Hey! Needle-Nerds - Your help is needed...

[ianh1968]

I've been working on the "Needles" spreadsheet recently for the first
time in over a year. It has had many improvements, including a fairly
comprehensive database of part numbers for both SU and Stromberg.

I say "fairly comprehensive" because a strange thing became apparent...

I have had many sets of needle charts over the years and it was these
that provided the data for the spreadsheet. However, the strange thing
is that there are far more needles in the part number cross-reference
section than there are tabulated needles. We are talking quite a few,
and I suspect that some of them are place-holders for needles that have
been allocated a part number and a needle name, but then did not get
produced.

The following are cross-referenced, but do not appear in the charts that
I have available to me:

Code: Select all

BM2,AUD1087	XT,AUD1447	CAS,CUD1216	AFQ,NZX4063
BM4,AUD1088	XU,AUD1448	CAT,CUD1217	AFR,NZX4064
BM6,AUD1089	XV,AUD1449	CAU,CUD1218	AFS,NZX4065
BM8,AUD1090	XW,AUD1450	CAV,CUD1219	AFT,NZX4066
RM,AUD1305	XX,AUD1451	CAW,CUD1220	AFU,NZX4067
RMO,AUD1306	XY,AUD1452	CAX,CUD1221	AFV,NZX4068
RM1,AUD1307	XZ,AUD1453	CAY,CUD1222	AFW,NZX4069
RM2,AUD1308	YA,AUD1454	CAZ,CUD1223	AFX,NZX4070
RM3,AUD1309	YB,AUD1455	ADV,NZX4020	AFY,NZX4071
RM4,AUD1310	YC,AUD1456	ADW,NZX4021	AFZ,NZX4072
RM5,AUD1311	YD,AUD1457	AED,NZX4028	BDH,NZX8008
RM6,AUD1312	YE,AUD1458	AEE,NZX4029	BEN,NZX8037
RM7,AUD1313	KJ,AUD1520	AEF,NZX4030	BET,NZX8042
RM8,AUD1314	KX,AUD1644	AEG,NZX4031	BEW,NZX8045
RM9,AUD1315	NB,AUD1681	AEH,NZX4032	BEX,NZX8046
WA,AUD1418	KY,AUD1682	AEJ,NZX4033	BEY,NZX8047
WB,AUD1419	KZ,AUD1683	AEK,NZX4034	BFE,NZX8053
WC,AUD1420	HH,AUD1684	AEL,NZX4035	BFL,NZX8059
WD,AUD1421	HI,AUD1685	AEN,NZX4037	BFM,NZX8060
WE,AUD1422	HJ,AUD1686	AEP,NZX4038	B1CC,B22330
WF,AUD1423	HK,AUD1687	AEQ,NZX4039	B1CL,B22536
WG,AUD1424	ACF,CUD1053	AER,NZX4040	B1CN,B22609
WH,AUD1425	ACG,CUD1054	AES,NZX4041	B1CP,B22645
WI,AUD1426	ACH,CUD1055	AET,NZX4042	B1CU,B23083
WJ,AUD1427	ACJ,CUD1056	AEU,NZX4043	B1CW,B23139
WM,AUD1428	ACK,CUD1057	AEV,NZX4044	B1CY,B23141
WN,AUD1429	ACL,CUD1058	AEW,NZX4045	B1CZ,B23200
XB,AUD1430	ACM,CUD1059	AEX,NZX4046	B1DA,B23230
XC,AUD1431	CAA,CUD1200	AEY,NZX4047	B1DC,B23428
XD,AUD1432	CAB,CUD1201	AEZ,NZX4048	B1DE,B23461
XE,AUD1433	CAC,CUD1202	AFA,NZX4049	B1DF,B23969
XF,AUD1434	CAD,CUD1203	AFB,NZX4050	B1DG,B23523
XG,AUD1435	CAE,CUD1204	AFC,NZX4051	B1DJ,B23600
XH,AUD1436	CAF,CUD1205	AFD,NZX4052	B1DS,B25265
XI,AUD1437	CAG,CUD1206	AFE,NZX4053	B1DT,B24158
XJ,AUD1438	CAH,CUD1207	AFF,NZX4054	B1DV,B24220
XK,AUD1439	CAJ,CUD1208	AFG,NZX4055	B1EB,B24566
XL,AUD1440	CAK,CUD1209	AFH,NZX4056	B1EC,B24568
XM,AUD1441	CAL,CUD1210	AFJ,NZX4057	B1ED,B24570
XN,AUD1442	CAM,CUD1211	AFK,NZX4058	B1EE,B24805
XO,AUD1443	CAN,CUD1212	AFL,NZX4059	B2BB,B24043
XQ,AUD1444	CAP,CUD1213	AFM,NZX4060
XR,AUD1445	CAQ,CUD1214	AFN,NZX4061
XS,AUD1446	CAR,CUD1215	AFP,NZX4062

The last few beginning with 'B1' and 'B2' are Stromberg needles.

I thought that I would check out the competition to see what they had.

"Mr Teglerizer" had approximately the same set as I currently have.
"Baa!!!" had 11 needles that were missing from my set.

In checking out "Baa!!!", I noticed that all the charts that I displayed
on the site were wrong in that none of them had the first index point
included in the data.

Given that no new car has been produced in the last 20 years or so
that has a carb fitted, the list should have been finalised at some point
and will therefore be static.

CAN ANYONE HELP FILL IN THE GAPS?

I don't mind buying a new set of charts, but I would want them to be more
up-to-date than what I have already.

Ian
http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... l_carb.htm
Version "021.Mk1" may be uploaded at some point.
(If Mark F still wants updated versions submitted for inclusion on the main site...)

[ianh1968]

Update:

I managed to get hold of a really old SU Needle Chart from eBay.
I also purchased from Burlen, a brand new set of charts...

This enabled me to fill in a few of the gaps myself, but there are
still quite a few needles outstanding. This current list is:

Code: Select all

ACF,CUD1053   AEY,NZX4047   AFV,NZX4068	  CAJ,CUD1208	KX,AUD1644
ACG,CUD1054   AEZ,NZX4048   AFW,NZX4069	  CAK,CUD1209	KY,AUD1682
ACH,CUD1055   AFA,NZX4049   AFX,NZX4070	  CAL,CUD1210	KZ,AUD1683
ACJ,CUD1056   AFB,NZX4050   AFY,NZX4071	  CAM,CUD1211	NB,AUD1681
ACK,CUD1057   AFC,NZX4051   AFZ,NZX4072	  CAN,CUD1212	XB,AUD1430
ACL,CUD1058   AFD,NZX4052   BEN,NZX8037	  CAP,CUD1213	XC,AUD1431
ACM,CUD1059   AFE,NZX4053   BET,NZX8042	  CAQ,CUD1214	XD,AUD1432
ADV,NZX4020   AFF,NZX4054   BEX,NZX8046	  CAR,CUD1215	XG,AUD1435
ADW,NZX4021   AFG,NZX4055   BEY,NZX8047	  CAS,CUD1216	XH,AUD1436
AED,NZX4028   AFH,NZX4056   BM2,AUD1087	  CAT,CUD1217	XI,AUD1437
AEE,NZX4029   AFJ,NZX4057   BM4,AUD1088	  CAU,CUD1218	XJ,AUD1438
AEN,NZX4037   AFK,NZX4058   BM6,AUD1089	  CAV,CUD1219	XK,AUD1439
AEP,NZX4038   AFL,NZX4059   BM8,AUD1090	  CAW,CUD1220	XL,AUD1440
AEQ,NZX4039   AFM,NZX4060   CAA,CUD1200	  CAX,CUD1221	XM,AUD1441
AER,NZX4040   AFN,NZX4061   CAB,CUD1201	  CAY,CUD1222	XN,AUD1442
AES,NZX4041   AFP,NZX4062   CAC,CUD1202	  CAZ,CUD1223	XO,AUD1443
AET,NZX4042   AFQ,NZX4063   CAD,CUD1203	  HH,AUD1684	 YA,AUD1454
AEU,NZX4043   AFR,NZX4064   CAE,CUD1204	  HI,AUD1685	 YB,AUD1455
AEV,NZX4044   AFS,NZX4065   CAF,CUD1205	  HJ,AUD1686	 YC,AUD1456
AEW,NZX4045   AFT,NZX4066   CAG,CUD1206	  HK,AUD1687	 YD,AUD1457
AEX,NZX4046   AFU,NZX4067   CAH,CUD1207	  KJ,AUD1520	 YE,AUD1458

What I am guessing is that those starting 'A' are new and may not have
actually been produced.

Those starting with 'CA' appear to be a whole set with none at all within
the series having any published details. (Ditto, as above...).

The "BM" and 'H' to 'K' needles are a mystery...

"NB", I suspect is a 125thou needle as "NA" appears in the 125 thou charts.

The previously queried "RM" series and the 'W' series were 187 thou (3/16") needles.

The 'X' series are more than likely the monster 250 thou (1/4") needles as I have managed
to locate other 'X' needles which are this size.

The 'Y' series may also be bigguns, maybe with a different shank size...

Any information on these outstanding items would be appreciated...
... as would anyone who can volunteer to be a "test-monkey" for the latest version of the
"Needles.ods" spreadsheet.


This task will not involve having a collender placed on your head with curly leads sprouting
from it, it will just involve messing around with a LibreOffice (or OpenOffice) spreadsheet
for a while and letting me know if anything is broken (or rubbish!).

Please PM me if you are able to help.

Updates log for the latest version:

Code: Select all

2015/10/12
Version 021
Database of all known SU and Stromberg part numbers added.  Some needles do not
have a part number listed and there are some part numbers which do not have a
set of needle dimensions available.  Were the latter “place-holders”?
If any users are able to assist in filling the gaps, they are asked to contact
the author.
“Comments” modified to provide a much improved “Lookup” and a freeze line has
been added so that only the user defined comments will be scrolled.
Comments added for many standard/lean/rich needles used in 'A' Series engines.
Layout and appearance optimised for viewing on 1280x768 resolution monitors.
Tab “Chart” added, a larger “full-sized” chart which can be set to show either
the chart from “Basic” or “Advanced”.
“Notes:” area shrunk on “Advanced” to allow a table containing the list of SU
springs to be included.
Limited support/data added for SU 3/16” (0.1875”) needles and SU 1/4” (0.250”)
needles, see the new F187 and F250 tabs.  “Filed A/F” and “Drop Jet” are not
available for indeces higher than index 16.

Once I am happy that v021 is OK, I'll ask Mark F about getting it uploaded to
the main MK1 site where the current version is:
http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... l_carb.htm

Ian

[Spider]

Good work Ian.

Gee, those 1/4" Needles,,,,,, I had to read that twice! Yeah, I guess that's what would be in the likes of the HS8 sized carbs, is there any bigger than them? At that size needle, I have a mental picture of a small guy standing in the throat of the carb with a garden hose!

[JohnA]

Good work Ian.

Gee, those 1/4" Needles,,,,,, I had to read that twice! Yeah, I guess that's what would be in the likes of the HS8 sized carbs, is there any bigger than them? At that size needle, I have a mental picture of a small guy standing in the throat of the carb with a garden hose!

Hi Spider, Eldred Norman used a 3 inch SU on his supercharger
Another crazy Australian
http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtop ... 0&start=45

[ianh1968]

Good work Ian.

Thanks!

The "Average" 1/4" needle flows as much fuel at Index 2 as
a 90 thou jet does at full lift...

I guess that's what would be in the likes of the HS8 sized carbs,
is there any bigger than them?

JohnA has answered the second part, the 2" carbs, as far as I know,
could take a variety of jets from 90 thou to 125 thou.

The 3/16" needles are 20 index points long, so 2&1/2"...
... oddly, the 1/4" needles are only 19 index points long!

These really big carbs I shall need to investigate - There
would not be much relevance to us with our 'A' Series
engines, but I felt that it was necessary to include as many
needles as I could find for completeness of data. As far as
I am aware, there is no other single source of needle data
as comprehensive as this.

Currently I have 779 SU and 377 Stromberg...


Ian