Buying Advice - Cooper from Richard Williams

[Bodge]

A friend of mine has been looking for an early Mini Cooper or Cooper S for a while now.

He has spotted this mk2 Cooper 998 currently for sale at Richard Williams and is going down to see it later this week.

UCH66G.jpg

He has already spotted that the alignment of the doors doesn't look quite right and I thought I would ask on his behalf whether anyone knows anything more about it.

The car can be found on this link

[mk1]

I don't know the car & no doubt much better spotters than I will be able to comment on it soon, but I have seen MUCH worse door gaps than that!

[snoopy64]

Hi

I don't know this particular car but i have one built within a month, are there any details of the engine rebuild... £25k is steep, £20k or less in my mind even though it looks a nice car. Plastic heater and choke controls et are right for that build, should possibly have black plastic kick strips but other than that...looks tidy enough... where's the red commission number tag, I would expect it on the slam panel?

[Pete]

With a restored car there’s always things about it you won’t like, and the price often dictates how much you’re prepared to put up with those things and whether they’re sortable or not without spending a heap more on it . Ive just looked at a lovely original Mk1 998 Cooper (£5k less than that Mk2) for someone that’s another ‘almost’ car because it’s had bloody horrific oversills put on it, otherwise it’s lovely. I presume the panel gap issue with this one will be the baggy N/S door which is pretty bad really for that money. You can actually see through it! (Tried to add a photo but computer says no).



I’ve never quite understood why folks queue up to pay an extra 20% for cars from a dealer when they’re buyable for realistic money privately but RW has done very good job of providing that service for years and does sell some lovely cars. He bought a very nice GT off me two years ago that went up in price by 50% within a year ( he resold it twice!) and yet all I got were tyre kickers. It’s just the way it goes.

[mk1]

Urmmmmmmm,

OK, Ill admit it, I hadn't waited long enough for all the picture to load. That is a fairly large door gap

doo.jpg

More than I would accept on a 25 grand car.

M

[111Robin]

It's a £20k car all day long. £26k is what I would expect for a nice Mk1 998 not a Mk2. The pillar vinyl wrapped up like a fish supper is one (minor) thing that wouldn't bother me but it would for £26k. Just a pity the dealers got their hands on it first and hiked it up. However as you say that's the way it works, I've been stung by a dealer in the past when I found out how much he'd paid for the car I bought off him, never again.
A lot of used car dealers who sell modern cars will actually add value to a car they buy cheaply by fully servicing, repairing damaged alloys, replacing tyres etc., but classic car dealers who buy cars that are already restored add zero, they just pump up the price and reap the rewards for doing absolutely nothing. Just a gripe that I have repeated many times but it's just a sore point I have. Everyone has the right to earn a living, however the definition of "earn" means you actually should do something to be rewarded........... ouch, just fell off my high horse again ......

[johnv]

I sold him my lovely 1990 cooper for £11k because I had no takers for about 3 months at £12k. He got 15 for it very quickly

[Ministwo]

Hi. The comments have really upset me I purchased the UCH 66G in 1996 restored it myself. Putting it on the road in May 99 l was not worried about door gaps or anything else. I restored the car for me but I did try to keep as original as I could. I joined the MCR
and enjoyed the many shows we attended and still do when I can.
The mini won the Beaulieu cup in 2002. I have a very serious illness and l have sold all my spares and this mini only keeping my Downton club sport.You have no idea how much this has upset me. Clive Brooks.

[mk1]

Hi Clive,

Please let me be the first to say sorry for any offence caused. I know it will be difficult to read some of the comments above, but please accept that none of them are meant personally.

It is inevitable that when a post like this one is made, people will focus on the negative aspects of any car and to all intents & purposes ignore all the good things about it. Anyone commenting was not doing so to disrespect you or the work you have done on what is undoubtedly a very nice car, they are pointing out any small negative issues that a potential new buyer should be aware of.

I appreciate that you have been hurt by some of the comments above, and doubt that there is anything that can be done or said to improve the situation, but as I have already said, nothing posted is meant as a personal sleight.

I would like to thank you for your post as it is worth us all remembering that any car discussed here or anywhere is owned by someone like yourself, they don't just appear out of the ether.

Wishing you the very best for the future & sincerely hope that this post is read in the spirit it was sent in.

Yours sincerely,

Mark F

[Pete]

It's a £20k car all day long. £26k is what I would expect for a nice Mk1 998 not a Mk2. The pillar vinyl wrapped up like a fish supper is one (minor) thing that wouldn't bother me but it would for £26k. Just a pity the dealers got their hands on it first and hiked it up. However as you say that's the way it works, I've been stung by a dealer in the past when I found out how much he'd paid for the car I bought off him, never again.
A lot of used car dealers who sell modern cars will actually add value to a car they buy cheaply by fully servicing, repairing damaged alloys, replacing tyres etc., but classic car dealers who buy cars that are already restored add zero, they just pump up the price and reap the rewards for doing absolutely nothing. Just a gripe that I have repeated many times but it's just a sore point I have. Everyone has the right to earn a living, however the definition of "earn" means you actually should do something to be rewarded........... ouch, just fell off my high horse again ......

But RW and dealers like him are providing a service, and do it very well, often delivering these cars to your door. They sell at inflated prices of course but it’s no different than inflated prices at auction. If they make money doing it good for them I can’t see anything to object to. And if buyers prefer to source cars this way its all their personal choice at the end of the day. RW certainly doesn’t have trouble selling them.

[mab01uk]

Hi. The comments have really upset me I purchased the UCH 66G in 1996 restored it myself. Putting it on the road in May 99 l was not worried about door gaps or anything else. I restored the car for me but I did try to keep as original as I could. I joined the MCR
and enjoyed the many shows we attended and still do when I can.
The mini won the Beaulieu cup in 2002. I have a very serious illness and l have sold all my spares and this mini only keeping my Downton club sport.You have no idea how much this has upset me. Clive Brooks.

Hi Clive,
If i owned or had restored UCH 66G back in 1996 I would be very proud of it still looking pretty good 27 years later. Anyone who owned and grew up with Minis back in the 1960/70's would know they were never as perfect as the many 'beyond factory fresh' restorations seen at shows today. Any minor points that some have picked upon would be fairly easily rectified by a 'hands on' owner at the correct market price but of course Dealers do tend to ask over the top money and hope they don't get too many purist buyers looking for perfection. However the reason many classic car buyers will pay more from a Dealer is because they get some guarantees (in theory) that they won't get from a private seller, especially if they are not mechanically minded or an expert on the marque. I think most of the comments are related to the high dealer asking price rather than the quality of the restoration.
Martin

[Bitsilly]

I have bought a most excellent car from Richard and sold it back to him some time later for more than he sold it to me for, although I had improved it a bit.
He sold it on at what I thought was a very reasonable mark up.
I respect the bloke.

Regarding someone restoring a car to their own personal standards, and then being upset 27 years later because folk are pointing out defects, I really would try not to take it personally.
I did up an RSP mini as a project with my son and sold it to a very nice multi millionaire who had his man inspect the car, who pointed out some faults which were my doing, but the guy still paid full price based on my restoration ethos, which was if it is good enough for me but then it isn't good enough for you, you can f$$$ off.
There is a door gap and one or two other points for discussion, which I would argue are only reason to take offence if said restorer was claiming a concorse restoration. You are not, and we are allowed to express opinions. Please do not be offended, it was never personal. You were never worried about anything, so try not to be upset that folk notice, especially folk here.

I'd buy it if I hadn't been so badly burned recently!

[111Robin]

You will find that if you advertise a car on this site you will receive mostly positive feedback because you have a "face". However any car advertised anonymously out on the WWW, especially by a dealer, will be scrutinised on here, especially if the price is deemed to be rather optimistic by some. The original poster asked for opinions and that is what he has received. I personally own a Mk2 998 pretty much identical to this one and I would love to have this sitting next to it. Mine isn't 100% perfect either and it doesn't bother me but I personally wouldn't pay £26k for any Mk2 998. This is no reflection on your efforts at all, just an opinion based on current market values. I reckon that if you had advertised it on here at market price someone would have snapped it up, perhaps even for more than RW gave you for it who knows.

[Ministwo]

I didn’t want to mislead anyone on my earlier post but I purchased the mini in 1991 and started the restoration in 1996 finished in 99 if you ever finish working on minis. I should have have said that I did not sale it to RW but had sold it to a club member 15 months ago sorry for any confusion. Thank you for your kind comments. Clive Brooks.

[Exminiman]

Couple of reasons people buy from a dealer these days IMHO is they have far more rights under the law and also ease of transaction.

They can buy a car unseen, on their card and have it delivered………

To be fair to the dealers they have the risk of getting the car returned, there is almost a feeing these days that the description, photos etc is enough, if description is not accurate, no problem, you can “back” it….

Also, if you sell your car to a dealer, there is no come back on you, if its a lemon, its their lemon, which makes things easier.

The punters feel protected…….righty or wrongly and they dont have to talk to smelly, grumpy old car restorers , I know less of the old

[Exminiman]

Regarding someone restoring a car to their own personal standards, and then being upset 27 years later because folk are pointing out defects, I really would try not to take it personally.

Couldn't’ agree more, also because standards have changed a lot, thinking back to cars restored and sold in the 90s, lots would get slated now, because what people require in terms of originality and build quality has changed.

Cars are now being rebuilt better than original in lots of cases also the internet has made the “rivet counting detail” available to all at the touch of a mouse….sadly in my opinion.

Personally I like a car that is not quite perfect, lived in and with a few obviously “ Wrong” details and used

Rambling a bit now, but just love the idea of the Blyton award for the mini that “ you would most like to take home” , bet it wont be a flat pack S, pension fund special…..

[Bitsilly]

The whole reason I got into minis in the first place was the care free motoring experience!
You could scratch or ding them but mostly keep them going on a shoestring. Buy them for less than £100 and leave them overnight in the city without a care!
And occasionally you’d get a really good fun one that didn’t crab or collapse!

[Oneball]

I’d put money on the door gap just being the seals holding the door proud. Take them off and see how it lines up.

[Polarsilver]

Oneball i would agree your comment.