Has the electric car bubble burst?

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andy1071
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by andy1071 »

Peter, there was a Tesla owner in Scotland that was quoted £17k for a new battery...

Also, just heard from a colleague that people in China are not buying electric cars now. They want hybrids or 'range extenders'... due to the lack of charging infrastructure outside the cities... sound familiar? :lol:
rolesyboy
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by rolesyboy »

Well I've had my Tesla for a year now. Practically I cannot really fault it aside from the handling which is not on par with the amount of power the thing has.
A truck took the side out in December and I've been in a petrol hire car since. I can honestly say the Tesla wins by a country mile.

And it hasn't caught fire yet!! :lol:
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mab01uk
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by mab01uk »

Hertz sells off 20,000 electric cars as drivers stick with petrol.
Rental giant expects to take £190m hit after blaming weak demand and high repair costs...
"US rental giant Hertz is selling off thousands of Teslas as weak demand forces it to replace 20,000 electric cars with petrol-powered vehicles.
Hertz said it would sell the vehicles over the next year and expected to take a $245m (£193m) hit as it reversed plans to massively expand its electric car fleet.
The company is selling off a range of makes and models but is expected to offload thousands of Teslas. More than 600 are already listed for sale on its used car website.
Three years ago, Hertz announced plans to buy 100,000 Tesla electric cars, a move that pushed Tesla’s market value beyond $1 trillion.
However, Hertz said renting out electric cars had proved to be less profitable than traditional vehicles and the cars had also come with higher repair costs.
The sell-off, which applies only in the US but amounts to around a third of the company’s global electric vehicle fleet, comes after years of Hertz positioning itself as a “first mover” in electric car rentals.
As well as agreeing to buy 100,000 Teslas, it committed to buying 65,000 vehicles from Polestar, Volvo’s electric subsidiary, and last year it said a quarter of its fleet would be electric by the end of 2024.
Motorists have complained about experiences when renting electric cars as a result of the myriad of different charging networks, the fact that the cars are often unsuitable for long road trips, or in some cases because drivers receive vehicles without fully-charged batteries.
Hertz chief executive Stephen Scherr said last year that the plummeting value of used electric cars also made them less profitable.
Demand for electric cars in the UK flatlined last year, according to figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. They accounted for 16.5pc of all new car sales last year, slightly down on the 16.6pc in 2022."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... th-petrol/
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Spider
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Spider »

This current wave of EV's that have been a rash on the motoring landscape, running on dumb arse batteries will die off. People are starting to wake up to the con job that they are and the knee jerk of many Governments to encourage their use.

Not currently, but not far off Hydrogen will be the way forward as an alternative fuel, for both EVs and ICEs.

Here in Australia, there has been a short sighted up-take of EVs, though they don't well suit our country. For the folks that live & work in the cities, they are kinda working out, though most have had rude surprises at the true running cost. Of course, we have lots and lots of wide open low to zero populated regions between towns. Our dumb deaf and stupid Government is putting in diesel powered charging stations on some of the major routes, but that won't be adequate for at least 10 years and it'll likely take as long to charge up considering it's just one charging point,,,,in School Holidays, I can see the cues reaching all the way back to the cities they came from.

A Motoring journalist hired a Hyundi EV, drove Sydney to Melbourne, a distance of 600 miles. It took her just over 12 hours and cost $210.00 in charging fees. She did the return trip in the ICE version of the same car, took 9 hours (as she didn't need to waste 3 hours charging :roll: ) and cost $140.00 in petrol,,,,,,,,, The EV was fully charged when she picked it up and needed a charge along the way. The ICE version did the trip with no stops.

There's lots and lots of private car parks here that won't allow EVs to enter because of how dangerous they are.

EVs, at least here are a total con job.
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MiNiKiN
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by MiNiKiN »

Spider wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:51 am This current wave of EV's that have been a rash on the motoring landscape, running on dumb arse batteries will die off. People are starting to wake up to the con job that they are and the knee jerk of many Governments to encourage their use.

Not currently, but not far off Hydrogen will be the way forward as an alternative fuel, for both EVs and ICEs.

Here in Australia, there has been a short sighted up-take of EVs, though they don't well suit our country. For the folks that live & work in the cities, they are kinda working out, though most have had rude surprises at the true running cost. Of course, we have lots and lots of wide open low to zero populated regions between towns. Our dumb deaf and stupid Government is putting in diesel powered charging stations on some of the major routes, but that won't be adequate for at least 10 years and it'll likely take as long to charge up considering it's just one charging point,,,,in School Holidays, I can see the cues reaching all the way back to the cities they came from.

A Motoring journalist hired a Hyundi EV, drove Sydney to Melbourne, a distance of 600 miles. It took her just over 12 hours and cost $210.00 in charging fees. She did the return trip in the ICE version of the same car, took 9 hours (as she didn't need to waste 3 hours charging :roll: ) and cost $140.00 in petrol,,,,,,,,, The EV was fully charged when she picked it up and needed a charge along the way. The ICE version did the trip with no stops.

There's lots and lots of private car parks here that won't allow EVs to enter because of how dangerous they are.

EVs, at least here are a total con job.
I've deliberately kept quiet here for a long time now, but I think I need to intervene again to correct things a bit.

It is a fallacy that hydrogen is the better solution. It just produces a lot more CO2 (losses during production and transport) compared to battery electric, H2 is dirty (because most of it is made from fosile methane), it's inconvenient (refuelling at a busy "filling station" takes ages as the tap freezes if it's constantly in use), hydrogen is highly flammable, in these our area (Europe) most of it will be produced in Russia (resulting in even more dependence on that autocratic state, let alone them givin a shite about pollution in production, etc.)
Comparison of efficiency:
battery-electric-bev-or-hydrogen-fuel-cell-fcv-source-volkswagen.jpg
Hydrogen: For very remote areas, heavy goods transport and aviation, it could be the better solution.

And please don't spread the fake news that electric cars are dangerous, because they are far less dangerous than ICE cars. This is proven by factual statistics and not by manipulated news from certain people with an "agenda". By the way, a hydrogen car also has a battery - in case the hydrogen propaganda community hasn't yet realised that ;)

fcv-source-volkswagen.jpg
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swifty
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by swifty »

I’ve read that with interest. Trouble is there is so much misinformation on both sides and every one seems to have an agenda. ,,,, Shirley
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richardACS
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by richardACS »

swifty wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:01 pm I’ve read that with interest. Trouble is there is so much misinformation on both sides and every one seems to have an agenda. ,,,, Shirley
Agreed on the misinformation. Cannot be that difficult for the true calculation to be determined between ICE, electric and Hydrogen.

The basis of the information being:

1) Cost of manufacture to end of life scrappage

2) Cost of fuel per 10k

3) Cost of service/repairs per 10k miles
beardylonodn
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by beardylonodn »

My brother in law works in this space, and he says Hydrogen just wont work.

Also indecently I saw a good doc on the BBC which was about heat pumps but brings the Hydrogen issue, and the main takeaway is that said most Hydrogen is actually made from natural gas, so it's a non starter for the moment as it also produced sh!t loads of Co2, and they need to pump it out to sea!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p ... heat-pumps
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goff
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by goff »

beardylonodn wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:55 pm My brother in law works in this space, and he says Hydrogen just wont work.

Also indecently I saw a good doc on the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p ... heat-pumps
Who ever believes what the BBC say , biggest liars on the telly :o , they said we was going into a ice age in the 70s :lol: :lol: :lol: , now they tell us we have got global warming , yes it is true , just look at how the panties are getting smaller , " proof of global warming " :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Spider
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Spider »

Goff,,,,, hehehehehe,,,,,, yeah,,,, I hear ya mate and can't disagree there !

MiNiKiN wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:48 am
Spider wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:51 am
Not currently, but not far off Hydrogen will be the way forward as an alternative fuel, for both EVs and ICEs.
It is a fallacy that hydrogen is the better solution. It just produces a lot more CO2 (losses during production and transport) compared to battery electric, H2 is dirty (because most of it is made from fosile methane), it's inconvenient (refuelling at a busy "filling station" takes ages as the tap freezes if it's constantly in use), hydrogen is highly flammable, in these our area (Europe) most of it will be produced in Russia (resulting in even more dependence on that autocratic state, let alone them givin a shite about pollution in production, etc.)
Cheers for that.

I did say 'not currently' and I don't disagree that on current technology, it's not clean, but that'll change. I'm no chemist so I have no idea here how they are doing it, but one avenue that I have heard they are looking in to is using ammonia. I have little doubt, it is the way of the future.

There is a LOT of R & D going on to Hydrogen 'production'. It is the most abundant element in the Universe. Toyota, Hyundi, Honda, JCB and New Holland are putting a lot of their 'betting money' on Hydrogen, with cars in production today that you can buy. There are many filling stations worldwide, now;-

https://www.h2stations.org/

I doubt these companies would be putting so much in to this technology if it was to be phased out on the basis of 'dirty' fuel production.

Don't forget - Batteries are also dirty, very dirty. That might change down the track, but I really just can't see that. They also just don't and not likely to have in the next 100+ years going to come within a bulls roar for energy density of hydrocarbon or straight hydrogen fuels. Batteries are not future.
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