Has the electric car bubble burst?

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rolesyboy
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by rolesyboy »

But I'm an optimist Pete :lol:
Yep as sure as god did.... I will put money on it somebody runs out of petrol somewhere today because they are badly organised.
Its the same with an EV. It just doesn't make the headlines if somebody runs their car out of juice and the owner starts stamping their feet saying "this is a travesty. I bought that car in good faith and they haven't installed a charge point at the location I ran out.. 'yet' "
The range is displayed on the dash. Its the same principle as having a tank of fuel. The gauge is progressive and what these dummies neglect to recognise is that as you drive a car the range goes down. If you press the gas pedal harder it goes down faster. If you feather the throttle it goes down less quickly
God help me if I ever run out of charge but I promise you if I do I will shoulder the blame and wont be running off to the local Gazette saying it was everybody else's fault.
And I definitely won't be telling Costa :lol:
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111Robin
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by 111Robin »

An interesting video on JCB and their development of the hydrogen powered engine. Seems strange that the UK government appear to be ignoring this as a parallel option to EVs.

https://youtu.be/jxtxZY45RMM
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MiNiKiN
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by MiNiKiN »

111Robin wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:51 pm An interesting video on JCB and their development of the hydrogen powered engine. Seems strange that the UK government appear to be ignoring this as a parallel option to EVs.

https://youtu.be/jxtxZY45RMM
You may think about the government whatever - but possibly they are not so stupid in every respect.

I am repeating myself, groundhog day time again.
Hydrogen is very wasteful in production (cue: losses in transformation and transport). Very inconveniant at the re-fill station (f.k.a. petrol station) cause it ices up around the filler neck. This means waiting time...
To produce it in the quantities required for cars, means it's gonna be made from methan (i.e. the mega-greenhouse gas) under a lot of CO2 emission on top from production and transport. I.e. this sso called grey and blue hydrogen is sanything but environmentally friendly, nor has it a positive effect on greenhouse gas emissions, nor is cleaner than pure electricity and it certainly is very expensive and scarce.
We will need more than all yet sustainably produced* hydrogen (10% currently) for lorries, ships, planes, metal works, etc.

*from wind and solar
Yes I am a nerd: I am researching the Austrian Mini-racing scene of the 60s and 70s :ugeek:
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111Robin
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by 111Robin »

MiNiKiN wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:26 pm
111Robin wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:51 pm An interesting video on JCB and their development of the hydrogen powered engine. Seems strange that the UK government appear to be ignoring this as a parallel option to EVs.

https://youtu.be/jxtxZY45RMM
You may think about the government whatever - but possibly they are not so stupid in every respect.

I am repeating myself, groundhog day time again.
Hydrogen is very wasteful in production (cue: losses in transformation and transport). Very inconveniant at the re-fill station (f.k.a. petrol station) cause it ices up around the filler neck. This means waiting time...
To produce it in the quantities required for cars, means it's gonna be made from methan (i.e. the mega-greenhouse gas) under a lot of CO2 emission on top from production and transport. I.e. this sso called grey and blue hydrogen is sanything but environmentally friendly, nor has it a positive effect on greenhouse gas emissions, nor is cleaner than pure electricity and it certainly is very expensive and scarce.
We will need more than all yet sustainably produced* hydrogen (10% currently) for lorries, ships, planes, metal works, etc.

*from wind and solar
I said "in parallel to the EV"
Thanks for the lesson.
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Exminiman
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Exminiman »

Putting the question of hydrogen supply aside for a moment

I think its interesting how JCB are also being driven (scuse pun) by who and where their products (these are all just products) are serviced and fixed by - no use having a vehicle without a dealer network equipped to repair it.

Apparently, they have 700 odd thousand dealers world wide all who understand and are equipped to work on ICE engines - in broad terms, their solution is just changing the fuel....

The current EV solution( maybe it will change) seems best suited to use in metropolitan areas....or for shorter journeys
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111Robin
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by 111Robin »

This is the crux. We are being pushed into EVs as the only option yet they will just not be suitable for all regions or operating requirements. All of the options should be made available, including highly efficient low emission ICE vehicles. By all means fully electrify densely populated cities, that is a great solution and it would work perfectly in most cases and would encourage the use of public transport. I'm not an "EV hater", I just want to have the choice of transport mode to suit my needs.
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mk1
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by mk1 »

My Brother has run an Audi e-tron for the last 3 years, he had to borrow my car when he went down to London to see his Son & has to stop for a quick recharge between Harrogate & Lincoln, a journey he does regularly. In the three years he had it, it had a number of factory recalls & the suspension collapsed 3 times. He's just got rid & replaced it with a Hybrid Range Rover Velar.

I hope I never have to buy an electric car.

I'm not a "hater" by any means, I think they are a reasonable solution for some peoples transport requirements. If you are buzzing round a city where you are making short journeys & you have access to decent charging facilities they are fine, if you live in the middle of nowhere or do a lot of miles, a lot of things need to improve a lot before they are a real option.

This makes interesting reading.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/busines ... -vehicles/
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Exminiman
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Exminiman »

likewise, not an EV hater, actually, I quite fancy one for work, just couldn`t find one for a sensible price that would do what we needed...

I dont think the servicing repair network question is to be under estimated, apparently (according to internet https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ountrywide.) Tesla have just 30 service centres in the UK and they make a point of owning them all :shock:

Is this enough for the whole UK ? doesn't sound enough to me - could certainly be an issue for them if they get significant recalls.
rolesyboy
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by rolesyboy »

Prices will now start to drop to more attainable levels as 3-5 year old fleets of EV's go to auction. Anything novel starts off as expensive. Gradually as more manufacturers play catch up there will be more cars available to choose from which in turn dilutes the value of the existing, comparatively small pool of EV's and thereafter the values of these cars.
They are genuinely a great option but it isn't for everybody at this point in time. If you live in a rural area and do long journeys day in day out and you are doing this at pace then clearly choosing an EV would likely be a badly thought through decision.
Give it a few years and there will likely be a natural transition to EV's becoming mainstream (unless Porsche pull this synthetic fuel out of the bag, which I would love, but I suspect that will end up as a 'Betamax')

Having had a new Honda Civic, Audi A4, Golf, BMW 330d and 530e over the last 10 years I will say that all have had manufacturer recalls. It certainly isnt exclusive to EVs. The BMW's were the most frequent inc. EGR coolers that threatened to catch fire and various other bits and bobs. I looked on this as an opportunity to drive a new M3 or convertible for the day while my own car got a free valet :lol:
(Bizarrely my Audi A4 had 7 replacement windscreens in 70k miles??? Yet I haven't had a screen in any of the others??)
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Costafortune
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Costafortune »

rolesyboy wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:32 pm Dunno. I am not aware of any substantive efforts to sue by the government?? Is this happening? Is it in the UK?
South Korea.
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