Has the electric car bubble burst?

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mab01uk
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Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by mab01uk »

"Eighteen-month waits after order your new car and seemingly unending queues to power it up due to a dearth of new charging stations being built. This seems to be the experience for many UK motorists when buying and owning an electric car.
And this may be why a recent recovery in the new car market - after registrations fell to an 40-year low last year - is being partly fuelled most significantly by a surge in petrol car sales and less-so by electric cars like Teslas.
New statistics released by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) showed new car registrations saw a significant boost this January compared to the same time last year.
Britons may be becoming switched off to the idea of battery-powered electric cars due to a lack of public charging stations, which can leave drivers queueing for hours waiting for a point to free up.
Electric car infrastructure in the UK was considered at 'crisis point' after it was revealed last month that just 806 new chargers were being installed per month, This is Money reported.
This rate which needs to nearly quadruple to 3,130 installations a month to meet the Government's target of having 300,000 devices nationwide by 2030 - when the UK will ban new petrol and diesel cars. There are only 37,055 charging points in the UK as of January this year.
And new SMMT data shows that the rollout of charging infrastructure is still 'failing to keep pace', which is 'challenging consumer confidence'.
In the final quarter of last year, just one public chargepoint was installed per 62 plug-in cars, a fall from 1:42 compared to the same quarter in 2021.
Overall in 2022, just one standard public charger was built for every 53 new plug-ins registered, the weakest ratio since 2020.
According to the latest figures, there is only around one public electric charging point per 30 plug-in vehicles. This includes the 680,994 battery electric vehicles and 458,875 plug-in hybrids."
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/car ... icles.html
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Costafortune »

Add to that the number of charging points having the copper cables chopped off and weighed in for scrap. :lol:
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Herbert »

What bubble ???
The politicians and do-gooders who decided that electric cars was the way to go forwards are just deluded. It costs more to produce one, More to tun one and the batteries dont last more that 10 years so cars will be scrapped.
What about buses ? Trains, lorries, Ferries and Cruise ships? are they going electric ???

NO !

Hydrogen cars seem to be a better choice, so I for one will never buy electric cars, not as long as I dont grow a third nipple.
Petrol cars (used) will be on the road well after 2030.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Polarsilver »

The "British" Motor Society always get things wrong ..just one example remember that back in the day "everyone" ( except poor me & you ) wanted their new car registration letter on their number plate, therefore New Years Day was the on demand New Car Delivery Day .. but this was too much work for the Car Dealers & upset the Manufacture who wanted steady car production throughout the year .. so they scrapped when a new car got a ABCD Registration Letter date aligned to that calendar year & just like Electric Cars also Brexit plus the loss of the GB Plate ..no one ever admits they Got it Wrong :roll:
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Andrew1967 »

People beginning to wake up to the electric car farce ... about bloody time too.

Some of the stories I've heard from people unfortunate enough to work on these would put anyone off.

Will be the biggest scandal in motoring history.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by johnv »

Andrew1967 wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:16 pm People beginning to wake up to the electric car farce ... about bloody time too.

Some of the stories I've heard from people unfortunate enough to work on these would put anyone off.

Will be the biggest scandal in motoring history.
My feelings exactly
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by 111Robin »

I see things changing once sustainable fuels are available at a reasonable price using the existing delivery and supply network. EVs are here to stay but the choice of EV or ICE should be available to everyone, to suit individual needs. The novelty factor will soon wear off anyway. EVs are just like the latest I phone, everyone just NEEDS to have one, whether they do or not.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Richspec »

I think the bubble has burst yes, but only the bubble (or capacity) that expands as far the charging network will allow. Yes there was a rush by some to adopt the new tech, the I phone affect as above, but thats slowed down, the next to get them were those who recognize the small mileage offered was able to be matched by their usage and ability to charge.
Now you're left with the bulk of the driving public, cant afford the rediculous pricing and cant charge conveniently, or just do too many miles for the tech available.
Sales will still occur just at a much slower rate, as the vehicle tech and charging network bumps along.
But i just cant see it happening to meet any timescale set by the green lobby within government.

As for commercial use thats way off usable as yet.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by wantafaster1 »

I have a theory it was all a promotion to get countries away from an oil based economy.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by andy1071 »

I work with vehicle design, mostly with chassis/suspension.
2 of the biggest emissions from cars are brake dust and tyre dust/particles (see below for CO2 emissions, and check-out "green ncap").
Brake dust can be less for electric cars due to re-generative braking.
BUT, tyre dust is worse, due to increased weight! (We're seeing electric cars weighing 2.5-3.0 tonnes and more..!!)
The tyre- dust/particles are a much bigger health danger/concern than CO2....

People are also waking-up to the fact that the CO2 emissions of electric cars are very often worse than ICE cars:
1) more CO2 to produce the car;
2) if it's an SUV type electric car it produces more CO2 through it's life (there are lots of arguments about how much CO2 from the electric generating source, but anyway, we don't have enough wind or solar if all cars are electric... )
3) more CO2 to re-cycle at the end-of-life.

Plus, who controls most of the lithium, rare-earth metals, and other materials essential for electric cars....?

The most environmentally-friendly car is the one that you already own....
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Herbert »

Just read the article in last saturdays Motoring section (2 pages ??? where is the old full motoring section and Uncle John gone) and some poor guy was messed about by the dealer he bought his EV from when the battery failed , almost from new, and was told that if he doesnt do more than 7000 miles a year it invalidates his warranty ! Also Hyundi will not allow a EV car to be registered as a taxi, that invalidates the warranty too!
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Exminiman »

andy1071 wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:29 am The most environmentally-friendly car is the one that you already own....
Especially if it’s 60 years old :mrgreen:
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Ronnie »

I hear what you are saying :shock: :) Image
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by rolesyboy »

Well, despite all the petrol heads telling me that I will end up strapped to a ducking stool in the village pond, here is a real time update on my experience of electric cars. I have done over 3000 miles in my Tesla Model Y since late December. It is nothing short of brilliant.
If I am not slowly charging it from home (still using a 3 pin plug till I move house) I use a Tesla Supercharger which has been superb, quick and dead simple. I have not had any problems accessing this or any other charge points thus far. Financially it is definitely costing a lot less to run than my 530e.
Yes I really do love my classic cars but I really wouldn't rely on mine for daily use, reduced fuel bills nor crash protection
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by mk1coopers »

I spent a week using a Nissan Leaf in the recent cold weather, max charge was around 130 miles of range, the dark and cold travel made that more realistically 80, so I had to charge it everyday, which took many hours.

To be honest I’d rather not have an EV, I still think they are the Betamax solution, a combination of synthetic fuels, hydrogen, pure electric and fossil fuels when needed would give a more rounded ‘solution’, a reduction in our tendency to be a throwaway society would also help, making things last longer and not producing so much, still it’s not the world we live in, so we are all faced with personal choices to make over the impact we have, and what effect that has on everything around us.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by rolesyboy »

Yeh that sounds crap. I wouldn’t entertain something with a range of 130 miles as a daily car. Like you say in extreme cold conditions the range is diminished and if you are starting with 130 to begin with that’s a bad basis.
Tesla has a range of 300 plus. Even in that cold snap it didn’t bother me because there was so much in the tank so to speak.
Still can’t fault this Tesla though. Love it
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Polarsilver »

Seems that EV Cars are heavy & require specific tyres.. Today these replacement EV Car Tyres are limited in supply & any that become available in UK have New Car Dealers Priority & my local Tyre Suppliers can only get the remains that are not taken up by the Car Dealers making the prices none negotiable.
Dunno what tyres get fitted to a Hybrid as maybe they are not so heavy & can have "Normal Car Tyres" fitted ?
If i ran an Electric car it could be worth checking If suitable Tyres are available.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by mab01uk »

Amusing article below on owning and driving an electric Jaguar iPace as published in the Times recently.

Why I’ve pulled the plug on my electric car by Giles Coren.
Friday January 06 2023, 5.00pm GMT, The Times.


The spark is gone — you’re better off walking than relying on useless, unreliable vehicles and chargers that never work

"As I watch my family strike out on foot across the fields into driving rain and gathering darkness, my wife holding each child’s hand, our new year plans in ruins, while I do what I can to make our dead car safe before abandoning it a mile short of home, full of luggage on a country lane, it occurs to me not for the first time that if we are going to save the planet we will have to find another way. Because electric cars are not the answer.
Yes, it’s the Jaguar again. My doomed bloody £65,000 iPace that has done nothing but fail at everything it was supposed to do for more than two years now, completely dead this time, its lifeless corpse blocking the single-track road.
I can’t even roll it to a safer spot because it can’t be put in neutral. For when an electric car dies, it dies hard. And then lies there as big and grey and not-going-anywhere as the poacher-slain bull elephant I once saw rotting by a roadside in northern Kenya. Just a bit less smelly.
Not that this is unusual. Since I bought my eco dream car in late 2020, in a deluded Thunbergian frenzy, it has spent more time off the road than on it, beached at the dealership for months at a time on account of innumerable electrical calamities, while I galumph around in the big diesel “courtesy cars” they send me under the terms of the warranty.
But this time I don’t want one. And I don’t want my own car back either. I have asked the guys who sold it to me to sell it again, as soon as it is fixed, to the first mug who walks into the shop. Because I am going back to petrol while there is still time.
And if the government really does ban new wet fuel cars after 2030, then we will eventually have to go back to horses. Because the electric vehicle industry is no readier to get a family home from Cornwall at Christmas time (as I was trying to do) than it is to fly us all to Jupiter. The cars are useless, the infrastructure is not there and you’re honestly better off walking. Even on the really long journeys. In fact, especially on the long journeys. The short ones they can just about manage. It’s no wonder Tesla shares are down 71 per cent. It’s all a huge fraud. And, for me, it’s over.
Yet the new owner of my “preloved” premium electric vehicle, fired with a messianic desire to make a better world for his children, will not know this. He will be delighted with his purchase and overjoyed to find there are still six months of warranty left, little suspecting that once that has expired — and with it the free repairs and replacement cars for those long spells off road — he will be functionally carless.
He will be over the moon to learn that it has “a range of up to 292 miles”. No need to tell him what that really means is “220 miles”. Why electric carmakers are allowed to tell these lies is a mystery to me. As it soon will be to him.
Although for the first few days he won’t worry especially. He’ll think he can just nip into a fuel station and charge it up again. Ho ho ho. No need to tell him that two out of three roadside chargers in this country are broken or busy at any one time. Or that the built-in “find my nearest charge point” function doesn’t work, has never worked, and isn’t meant to work.
Or that apps like Zap-Map don’t work either because the chargers they send you to are always either busy or broken or require a membership card you don’t have or an app you can’t download because there’s no 5G here, in the middle of nowhere, where you will now probably die.
Or that the Society of Motor Manufacturers said this week that only 23 new chargers are being installed nationwide each day, of the 100 per day that were promised (as a proud early adopter, I told myself that charging would become easier as the network grew, but it hasn’t grown, while the number of e-drivers has tripled, so it’s actually harder now than it was two years ago).
There are, of course, plus sides to electric ownership. Such as the camaraderie when we encounter each other, tired and weeping at yet another service station with only two chargers, one of which still has the “this fault has been reported” sign on it from when you were here last August, and the other is of the measly 3kWh variety, which means you will have to spend the night in a Travelodge while your stupid drum lazily inhales enough juice to get home.
Together, in the benighted charging zone, we leccy drivers laugh about what fools we are and drool over the diesel hatchbacks nonchalantly filling up across the way (“imagine getting to a fuel station and knowing for sure you will be able to refuel!”) and talk in the hour-long queue at Exeter services about the petrol car we will buy as soon as we get home.
We filled up there last week on the way back from Cornwall, adding two hours to our four-hour journey, by which time Esther wasn’t speaking to me. She’s been telling me to get rid of the iPace since it ruined last summer’s holidays in both Wales and Devon (“If you won’t let us fly any more, at least buy a car that can get us to the places we’re still allowed to go!”).
But I kept begging her to give me one last chance, as if I’d refused to give up a mistress, rather than a dull family car. Until this time, a couple of miles from home, when a message flashed up on the dash: “Assisted braking not available — proceed with caution.” Then: “Steering control unavailable.”
And then, as I inched off the dual carriageway at our turnoff, begging it to make the last mile, children weeping at the scary noises coming from both car and father: “Gearbox fault detected.” CLUNK. WHIRRR. CRACK.
And dead. Nothing. Poached elephant. I called Jaguar Assist (there is a button in the roof that does it directly — most useful feature on the car) who told me they could have a mechanic there in four hours (who would laugh and say, “Can’t help you, pal. You’ve got a software issue there. I’m just a car mechanic. And this isn’t a car, it’s a laptop on wheels.”)
So Esther and the kids headed for home across the sleety wastes, a vision of post-apocalyptic misery like something out of Cormac McCarthy, while I saw out 2022 waiting for a tow-truck. Again.
But don’t let that put you off. I see in the paper that electric car sales are at record levels and production is struggling to keep up with demand. So why not buy mine? It’s clean as a whistle and boasts super-low mileage. After all, it’s hardly been driven . . ."
https://archive.ph/QuhMb

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why- ... -dwgs9l9hl

THE AWARD-WINNING ALL-ELECTRIC PERFORMANCE Jaguar iPace SUV:-
https://www.jaguar.co.uk/jaguar-range/i-pace/index.html
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by woodypup59 »

Message to Giles - beware - the second hand values are through the floor, especially at auction.
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Re: Has the electric car bubble burst?

Post by Andrew1967 »

I heard today of someone whose daughter has an electric F-pace and its had two sets of tyres in the past two years !
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