Somerford Mini "Can't get the staff..."

[bryan]

I recall a story my father told me back in the mid sixties when he was in charge of a bit of the Dowty group near Wolverhampton that was designing and making the powered flying controls for Concord.
Following a request, he agreed to allow a group of teenagers from the local school to tour the manufacturing halls. My father heard the teacher say "If you don't study and pass your exams you will end up in a place like this". He was beyond rage. The problem has been with us for a very long time

[BAD942B]

in 1969 or 1970 we had our History teacher/ Deputy head who used to think it was funny to ask us what our parents did & belittle us, I replied coalman which he thought was very funny, what I should have said was haulage contractor hauling coal & aggregates, my father is long gone but the company turns over about 12 million & hauls very little coal but a fair chunk of the grain shipped in the midlands, aggregates still.
My mates father laid hedges amongst other agricultural work, this is now considered a dying art & good hedge layers are back in demand.
Working with your hands was being looked down then, the deputy head / history teacher called them dirty finger nails jobs, told abother mate that he would end up in borstal but he ended up running a company with 650 employees, retired now three years early

[Exminiman]

I recall a story my father told me back in the mid sixties when he was in charge of a bit of the Dowty group near Wolverhampton that was designing and making the powered flying controls for Concord.
Following a request, he agreed to allow a group of teenagers from the local school to tour the manufacturing halls. My father heard the teacher say "If you don't study and pass your exams you will end up in a place like this". He was beyond rage. The problem has been with us for a very long time

And now the Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank……safest place for any country to be is to have a broad based economy, not just service based….what were we thinking ?
EDIT, we should not forget our route to being one of the top economies in the world was driven by the industrial revolution….rant over, sorry…"back in my box"

[mk1]

For years & years this country has denigrated any sort of work in manufacturing. This really started in the 1980's with Mrs Thatcher telling we could all live quite comfortably selling each other hamburgers and that Manufacturing was of no importance when you had a thriving financial sector.

30 years on from that we are seeing the chickens come home to roost.

For generations kids have been told that the only way to earn a living is to spend 3 years & fifty grand getting a meaningless degree, after that they think they are "too good" to get their hands mucky. Technical schools are pretty much non-existent, I would suspect that there is less technical education in this country than there was in the early days of the industrial revolution.

As Mr Frazer in dad's Army used to say . . . . .We are DOOMED! Doomed I tell you

[mab01uk]

Kingston Polytechnic where I studied Engineering on day-release in the 1970's, while working for a company in an apprenticeship, is sadly now a University....

Apparently..."at their peak there were over thirty Polytechnics in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, often located in urban areas large enough to support industry or commerce, from which they usually took the city name. These are all now universities. Polytechnics were often seen as ranking below universities in the provision of higher education concentrating on applied science and engineering education and because the qualifications necessary to gain a place in one were sometimes lower than for a university. In UK culture, an engineering, applied science and technological education tended to be looked down upon socially. Industries and activities such as "manufacturing" and "engineering" were perceived to be things of the past, boring and "dirty". The connection to polytechnics did not help their cause in terms of achieving status in the public eye. This attitude and influence led to an expansion of the more popular subjects in the "creative" industries, such as fashion, arts and design, media studies, journalism, film studies, and sports management. The social influence caused many polytechnics to change their faculty of "Engineering" into a faculty of "Design and Technology".....

[woodypup no 2]

We don't make anything anymore. To pander to this ridiculous need to be leading the world in low carbon bollocks, we have got rid of manufacturing on a mass scale.
It seems we prefer to let others make (with the pollution that involves) so we can say look at us, we're perfect, even our cows are carhon neutral.

[gazza82]

Somerford's need to get in on the Apprentice-act again (Not Alan Sugar's lamentable bunch).

There are a few "classic" companies training up their own staff .. the rest need to. Not for cheap labour but teach the kids a proper skill.

A young member in our Club did a weeks work-experience at the SOS Workshop .. he wasn't bckward in coming forward and grabbed Fuzz at an NEC event and asked. He's now working as an apprentice mechanic and hopes to broaden his skills to move into Classics.

[Exminiman]

To pander to this ridiculous need to be leading the world in low carbon bollocks

Off thread, but sort of connected... now, we even have to fill our Diesel cars up with diluted cow piss, or they stop working

[gs.davies]

I recall a story my father told me back in the mid sixties when he was in charge of a bit of the Dowty group near Wolverhampton that was designing and making the powered flying controls for Concord.
Following a request, he agreed to allow a group of teenagers from the local school to tour the manufacturing halls. My father heard the teacher say "If you don't study and pass your exams you will end up in a place like this". He was beyond rage. The problem has been with us for a very long time

I can quite imagine this. At school in the late 80's we were actively pushed into industries that we may have had no interest in, with anything practical being seen as a 'drop out' kind of outcome. Consequently, my entire working life has been pretty unenjoyable and I hope for my own children that they go an do something they've got a passion for to make their way.

[Peter Laidler]

If only Gary...... when my daughter was at junior school,she would come into the garage where I was restoring my S and doing my weekly overhaul on my Commando. Most Brit Bike owners will understand this. She was a maestro at sorting out spanners and doing up bolts and knew the differences between metric, AF and Whitworth like it was second nature. She was destined for mech engineering or better still, civil or construction engineering, but I digress.

But once at grammar, things changed and dirty hands, helping dads with cars and bikes were for other kids. Wifey was happy but alas, no dirty hands for Sarah!

On the subject of apprentices, I mean REAL apprenticeships, the Army/RAF and the Navy had the right idea. You take the cream of the school leavers to train for 3 years and make them sign an undertaking that they'll stay with you for at least 5 years. No get-outs.... You sort of repay what they've given you. A bit of a PITA double edged sword though.....

[BAD942B]

If only Gary...... when my daughter was at junior school,she would come into the garage where I was restoring my S and doing my weekly overhaul on my Commando. Most Brit Bike owners will understand this. She was a maestro at sorting out spanners and doing up bolts and knew the differences between metric, AF and Whitworth like it was second nature. She was destined for mech engineering or better still, civil or construction engineering, but I digress.

But once at grammar, things changed and dirty hands, helping dads with cars and bikes were for other kids. Wifey was happy but alas, no dirty hands for Sarah!

My grndaughter was able to sort spannrs, nuts & bolts, etc.
She has become a hairdresser, actually a stylist. During lockdown she renovated her flat that she had just bought, with a little help from her father.
her employer / salon has entered her in a competition, she has been voted one of top 100 stylists in the world, there is hope !

[OzOAP]

Apprenticeships are the answer, not university, although the apprentice wage needs sorting out.
My youngest daughter did an apprenticeship with a BMW Mini race team. Start with cleaning the car and work your way up. After a couple of years she got a job at WSR Team BMW in British Touring Cars as a #2 mechanic, 2 years after that she became #1 Mechanic on Colin Turkingtons car. 3 years later she is now doing WEC, ELMS and ALMS with Aston Martin.
She left school at 17, got apprenticeship, day release at college, now, at 25 travels the world.
Other 25 year olds are just leaving university, with huge debt and no idea what they want to do.
My eldest daughter also left school at 17, got a low paid job in an office, got into Events Planning, had a few years as Events Co-ordinator at Caterham Cars, has now been Championship Co-ordinator for British GT Championship for 4 years.
Neither of the girls has great exam results, but hard work, common sense, and determination has gotten them both fantastic careers.

[W1NG3D]

I saw a similar conversation on another forum/group about this same article. A point raised there, which I agreed with, is that the salary figure such companies are able to afford (or are willing to offer) simply doesn't match up to the requirements of skills and experience to fulfill the role in the current economy.

Someone mentioned elsewhere that Somerford are offering sub-£30,000 as the salary for the vacant role(s), and there are probably plenty of lesser-skilled jobs which involve less "graft" where people could easily work up to that salary if not more. <£30k per year pre-tax doesn't go far these days, especially in the South West where Somerford are based.

I would actually love to work in the industry because I really enjoy the subject matter of all things automotive, but I'd be mad to leave my current profession and cut my earning potential by well over 50% or more.

If Somerford have got waiting lists of over 1.5 years and are constantly turning away work, perhaps in theory they can increase their prices, being in such high demand. That way they increase their revenue without needing to invest in additional staff, then if they do continue to experience more customer demand than they're able to cater for, this could give them the ability to offer a more attractive salary and bring in some workshop talent to further increase turnover with additional capacity for taking on work.

I know that this very idea is touched upon in the article, and I'm boiling it down to fairly basic principles of economics with "supply vs demand" here... Perhaps in reality they would genuinely lose out on the majority of their custom if they tried to increase prices even slightly.

If they truly have reached a price ceiling and are no longer at a point of being able to pay enough for skilled staff due to diminishing margins, it's a tricky situation and the only remaining option I'd then see from a business standpoint would be to diversify and get into a more unique and profitable market - for instance, could they go into manufacturing their own bespoke parts with higher margins, or branch out to restoration of non-Mini vehicles which people are willing to pay higher premiums for. I do appreciate that none of these things are easy, though!

To be clear, this isn't intended as a criticism of Somerford as a business, but I think it does highlight a wider issue with the state of our economy. The cost of living and rate of inflation has vastly outstripped the median wage in the UK for a long time now, and this has hit individuals hard along with smaller businesses. It's also affecting a lot of industries on the whole, with customers tightening their belts and holding their money aside for more essential things, I'm sure most of us would agree that spending on classic Minis is a bit of a luxury.

[BAD942B]

Someone mentioned elsewhere that Somerford are offering sub-£30,000 as the salary for the vacant role(s), and there are probably plenty of lesser-skilled jobs which involve less "graft" where people could easily work up to that salary if not more. <£30k per year pre-tax doesn't go far these days, especially in the South West where Somerford are based.

15 years ago a friend of mine was a dealer principal at a Ford garage, his techicians & bodyshop guys were on 45k after bonuses, he gave them a motivational talk most mornings so must have been like SAF

[111Robin]

I've recently been offered a £40k salary and I have an engineering degree and 30+ years experience, go figure. Employers try it on all of the time, why wouldn't they ?. I would say based on this that a £30k salary for a relatively young person starting out in the trade would be a good start if you really want to get into the trade. Sometimes getting your foot in the door is the important part, not the salary.

[gazza82]

If only Gary...... when my daughter was at junior school,she would come into the garage where I was restoring my S and doing my weekly overhaul on my Commando. Most Brit Bike owners will understand this. She was a maestro at sorting out spanners and doing up bolts and knew the differences between metric, AF and Whitworth like it was second nature. She was destined for mech engineering or better still, civil or construction engineering, but I digress.

But once at grammar, things changed and dirty hands, helping dads with cars and bikes were for other kids. Wifey was happy but alas, no dirty hands for Sarah!

My grndaughter was able to sort spannrs, nuts & bolts, etc.
She has become a hairdresser, actually a stylist. During lockdown she renovated her flat that she had just bought, with a little help from her father.
her employer / salon has entered her in a competition, she has been voted one of top 100 stylists in the world, there is hope !

In my garage there is a new'ish Imperial Socket set ... not large, but the common AF sizes. On it will be painted the names of my two grandsons .. and they will be shown, when a bit older, how to look after a proper car .. a 1959 Austin A35 (albeit with a bit more poke from a Midget 1275 engine, gearbox, diff, etc.).

The oldest is only 3 years old now but loves to look at the A35 even though it is just a shell on a spit. And somewhere has picked up a weird song .. "It's got no wheels ... " which he also loves to sing to me as he wanders off.

[Pete]

The cost of living and rate of inflation has vastly outstripped the median wage in the UK for a long time now, and this has hit individuals hard along with smaller businesses. It's also affecting a lot of industries on the whole, with customers tightening their belts and holding their money aside for more essential things, I'm sure most of us would agree that spending on classic Minis is a bit of a luxury.

But that’s only very recent, ie the last twelve months and probably temporary anyway, we’ve had many years of zero interest rates and low inflation with the same skill shortages , though to be fair I can understand why any young person would not opt to restore old cars when they get paid more in the local bodyshop. Have to say I’m constantly staggered to hear what people seem to earn nowadays.

[Dan Tweed grey]

They simply do not pay enough money.
If it was enough to pay my bills I would apply myself, you can drive a Tesco van or be a dogs body on a building site fot 200 per day...

[BAD942B]

They simply do not pay enough money.
If it was enough to pay my bills I would apply myself, you can drive a Tesco van or be a dogs body on a building site fot 200 per day...

Do they charge enough money, they offer a great range of services, some of those can be done by unskilled labour but for the really skilled stuff they need to be charging good money, just doing a few sums they should be charging at least £70 + VAT per hour which translates into about 43k a year pay using traditional garage methods for costing

Will the Mini fraternity pay that ?

[Dan Tweed grey]

I think people are more willing to fork out for good workmanship especially now the value of classic cars is high.