Ownership history of the 'First Mini off the line' (621 AOK)

[hanlminiman]

I wonder if it leaks at the bottom of the bulkhead.

[mab01uk]

Here we go…….bit controversial, but are the details, actually wrong ?

I would say they are part of the history of the car and should be kept…..in some instances.

Especially an early car, does it not show the evolution and development of the car in question ?

You could certainly argue that fact with AOK's history but then as can be seen in the photos between BMC buying the car back and the later photo with Alec Issigonis in 1971, the sunroof, wing mirrors, radio aerial, AA/RAC badges and spotlight have all been removed by the factory to present it as it would have looked when first built as the 'definitive' Mini Number 1. I guess the gear lever and various other 'wrong' bits under the bonnet, etc were not considered important for press photos and few Mini enthusiast museum visitors would have known or cared much about minor incorrect details back in the day.

However with the 'Heritage' Works Minis I am told by the MCR Works Mini 'anorak/rivet counters' that many key parts of their history have gone missing or been badly neglected/replaced over the years with little care or research done by the museum. No doubt some things were lost to souvenir hunters back when the cars used to go on BMC/BL Dealer showroom tours around the country. I certainly remember Works Minis parked unattended on the street outside our local BL Dealer where my older brother worked as a mechanic and came back with stories of how they now had some works rally Mini go faster parts swapped onto their 850 'boy racer' Minis....even if it was only the gear knob Paddy Hopkirk had used !
However I think we also now know that some of the BMC Dealer Showroom Works Minis on display were mocked up lookalikes and not the real thing?

[Spider]

Great story and thread, thanks Martin for posting up here.

Here we go…….bit controversial, but are the details, actually wrong ?

I would say they are part of the history of the car and should be kept…..in some instances.

Especially an early car, does it not show the evolution and development of the car in question ?

You could certainly argue that fact with AOK's history but then as can be seen in the photos between BMC buying the car back and the later photo with Alec Issigonis in 1971, the sunroof, wing mirrors, radio aerial, AA/RAC badges and spotlight have all been removed by the factory to present it as it would have looked when first built as the 'definitive' Mini Number 1. I guess the gear lever and various other 'wrong' bits under the bonnet, etc were not considered important for press photos and few Mini enthusiast museum visitors would have known or cared much about minor incorrect details back in the day.

However with the 'Heritage' Works Minis I am told by the MCR Works Mini 'anorak/rivet counters' that many key parts of their history have gone missing or been badly neglected/replaced over the years with little care or research done by the museum. No doubt some things were lost to souvenir hunters back when the cars used to go on BMC/BL Dealer showroom tours around the country. I certainly remember Works Minis parked unattended on the street outside our local BL Dealer where my older brother worked as a mechanic and came back with stories of how they now had some works rally Mini go faster parts swapped onto their 850 'boy racer' Minis....even if it was only the gear knob Paddy Hopkirk had used !
However I think we also now know that some of the BMC Dealer Showroom Works Minis on display were mocked up lookalikes and not the real thing?

I'd say here that who ever took these requests, themselves didn't know what was correct and what's opinion. Often too, many museums don't own many of the exhibits so they can't well allow any alterations to them wrong or right. The factory too, I'd say it's doubtful all those years later that there was anyone there who honestly knew what the car had and didn't have. While they could have likely spent time checking records, these people often aren't enthusiasts, it's just a job they show up for to get a pay cheque.

[Exminiman]

I think there are times when it is valuable to have a car looking as it did when it left the factory, but that only shows just that, how it left the factory.

Personally, think there is an issue with collecting old cars where most of the time the “Gold Standard” for a restoration, is taking the car back to how it left the factory and sweeping away everything else….

If you buy an old piece of furniture, mostly you would try and “Sympathetically” restore it, patina, old repairs and all…to strip it back will de value it…

Appreciate it is horses for courses, and there are many sympathetically restored cars out there - but the “ back to factory” standard has resulted in lots of cars losing there history and all looking the same. I believe owners are nervous of not ticking all the “Rivet Counter” boxes, as it result in the car being criticised, and lose value.

I just love seeing the physical history of a car, the odd accessories bolted on, the original paint, the Players Number Six fag packet in the door pocket…..and of course the smell

I am not putting an argument for not restoring to “Factory” standard just I think there is also another standard as well

[snoopy64]

I totally agree.. also Factory Standard gets confused with Factory Quality which if we are honest was often pants! We know that ‘as it left the factory ‘ means poor panel fit, glue on trim etc. AOK s history is amazing

[Polarsilver]

"Factory Standard".. having worked in the Pressed Steel Cowley Factory during the early 80,s factory standard was for example MGBs left outside "body in white" that description means NO Paint not even primer ..those new MGB Body shells were left out in the rain for weeks at a time pre paint shop.
Remember walking to school in the early 60,s i would see the BRS ( British Road Service ) two stoke Commer Lorrys chucking out their exhaust smoke taking "Body in White" Mini Shells from Cowley up to Longbridge .. so can i suggest "if" you need your car to be Factory Original & if it is not already in your shell you need to build in some corrosion pre painting because that is Factory Original.

[Exminiman]

yes, the "Factory" gold standard seems to of become its own thing, based on specification manuals and documents of the time, rather than the reality of manufacturing in a UK factory in the 60s and 70s...

[mab01uk]

I just love seeing the physical history of a car, the odd accessories bolted on, the original paint, the Players Number Six fag packet in the door pocket…..and of course the smell

I could not agree with you more especially your quote above. Although I think AOK should probably be an exception as it is supposed to be the definitive first Mini and most of the people viewing it out of general interest or for historical reference purposes would be expecting to see a Mini as it left the factory or was on display in a BMC Dealer showroom back in 1959.

Part of the reason I no longer attend many shows is because so many rows of better than factory restored cars all look the same, (compared with the reality I remember back in the 1960/70's), especially the now more valuable models like the Cooper & S, which is understandable from an investment point of view. It seems to have become more of a thing for many to point out any deviations from what the books say left the factory, with even period mods only accepted with reservations as something that will devalue the car at the next auction.
The highlight for me at the last show I attended was an old unrestored 1965 Mini van with lots of 'patina' and the original tan coloured front seats. The rear doors were open and as I put my head inside to take a look....the unique early Mini van smell took me straight back to nostalgic journeys as a kid in my eldest brothers '65 Mini van. You just can't reproduce that with a brand new Newton interior......

[Bitsilly]

My wife had a cat when we got married, and I did not like cats.
When I fitted a new kitchen she would claw and scratch in a particular corner and made poop of it just to upset me.
But over the years I genuinely came to love that bloody cat and her very quirky personality, we became friends.
My point is….when she died, the favourite part of the kitchen for the whole family was the corner she had made her own.

Gotta go, blokes in coats at the door again .

[sugarhiccup]

The best part of minis, for me, is their sheer longevity and our collective unwillingness to let go of them to history. I absolutely adore seeing a mini that’s weathered 50-60 years and is still going strong. I certainly appreciate the incredulous hours and craftsmanship spent breathing new life into these aging cars. Trawling this forum some days feels like a second job for me!

Each owner clearly adds a certain flavour or uniqueness to a mini’s lifetime, and more often than not these quirky accessories, stickers, paint jobs are what is so fun about these cars. As soon as I passed my driving test, I remember my first London to Brighton run occurring shortly after and being in awe of how many minis (in a strange way) looked just like their owner… It’s like the mini is an extension of the self, and the way this car has touched all walks of life is fascinating. The ability to tune and customise these cars so extensively is just so integral to the identity of the mini and it’s success as a cultural icon.

I must stress that I, of course, love a ‘factory’ spec mini as much as the next person, but 621 AOK is an interesting anomaly. A part of me wishes that those artefacts of its history had been preserved to celebrate, but I do like the notion of having a ‘definitive’ mini. Even if that particular mini can’t strictly wear that crown on paper, I still see it as such. More broadly speaking, however, if every mini looked the same we’d have very little to talk about…

Wear those bumps and bruises, dodgy paint touch ups, worn upholstery, etc. with pride! (Unless that’s just me!)

[Striped shirt]

Back in the mid 90's I was doing my design degree. I was doing something at the Design Museum in London and 621AOK was there as part of an exhibition, can't remember what it was.
Anyway..... I had a good clamber inside and out when none was around. I was surprised that it was quite tatty. I remember inside of the boot being painted black and the battery in it was just plonked inside it.
I was quite surprised, but actually it was a period correct car that was very much like an honest 35 year old used car.
Like everyone here, I love a restored, correct in every way Mini. I also love a ratty tatty Mini that has been driven, repaired and just used. This cannot be faked.
It would be a shame to restore 621AOK, it is unique and so everything that's 'wrong' is actually....right.