Electric Mini saga update!

[Peter Laidler]

Want to know why these qango authorities/agencies can act like this? Because they CAN. And they are not - or barely - answerable to anyone.

Give someone a yellow jacket and a bit of authority amd a clip-board and they will ALWAYS abuse it

[mab01uk]

Want to know why these qango authorities/agencies can act like this? Because they CAN. And they are not - or barely - answerable to anyone.

Give someone a yellow jacket and a bit of authority amd a clip-board and they will ALWAYS abuse it

I agree Peter, there were many examples of that happening in the UK during the covid lockdowns and what is happening in China this week shows where that can ultimately lead.....authority not answerable to anyone.

[mk1]

Hum, I think we need to keep some level of perspective.

Comparing a slightly incompetent & undoubtedly stubborn DVLA to one of the most restrictive & intrusive surveillance states in the world is pushing it a bit!

[Oneball]

I hope you get some resolution, I think you’ve been very unlucky that they are now applying the 8 point rule with a somewhat strict and blinkered approach, presumably due to the increasing number of electric vehicle conversions. It caught a lot of hot rods out a number of years ago and is an ongoing issue for many cars that have been on the road for years but a change of ownership or address etc then flags it on the DVLA system.

[swifty]

Also the dvla also hold a huge amount of personal information on us for the government. Remember the debate around ID cards !
Well that got in because of our photo card driving licences. … Ken

[gazza82]

Also the dvla also hold a huge amount of personal information on us for the government. Remember the debate around ID cards !

Data that they are more than happy to sell to dodgy car parking firms!

[Peter Laidler]

For fear of gobbing off on this subject again....... These agencies DO have a complaints procedure that you can use, via three stages of elevation but guess what.....? They investigate themselves! And you CAN go to the parliamentary ombudsman scheme for free but ONLY if you have exhausted the in-house, self investigation process.......anyway.....

The Parliamentary precess cannot overturn things such as stupid decisions and questionable policy or '.....it's bleedin obvious.....'. Nope, the only recourses - so far as me and my sisters in depth reading of the obscure legislation is to have them for 'MAL ADMINISTRATION which causes such a thing as 'causal loss' And then, they know that it's a matter for the High Court - or the County court for a financial loss. If you've got your ducks in a row and paperwork and tele calls, emails etc etc all accurately lined up, the all is good. Except that you'll also need £10,000 to take them on. They're funded by the taxpayer too!

And if you loose against the expensive Agency funded Barrister, don't forget it's a civil Court - and the winner takes all

Been there, done that and recently won

[Bitsilly]

The dedicated article on the Hagertys site has been confirmed now as a dos and don’t of EV conversions!!
I can only guess which category car will be in
Oh well, win some lose some!

[mab01uk]

Similar EV conversion stories in this thread on the 'openinverter' forum....
https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2379

[Bitsilly]

Just for closure!
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... ment-40544

Thanks for everyone’s support but the car is to be stripped.
Cheers

[Spider]

My goodness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I have read bits and pieces of your threads as it just sounded like one huge and unnecessary mess. Now I read this and shake my head.

I have to ask the question - how did you piss them off ??

Your remedy (weld up the hole) and their rejection of it flies in the face of thousand of car repair workshop practices across the UK, let alone the rest of the world. What if you fitted a new BMH Boot Floor ? On what grounds would the find / invent to knock that back ?

I'm just shaking my head here,,,, a new Government stupidity level,,,,,

Hum, I think we need to keep some level of perspective.

Comparing a slightly incompetent & undoubtedly stubborn DVLA to one of the most restrictive & intrusive surveillance states in the world is pushing it a bit!

[winabbey]

Am I reading this correctly?

Hagerty - It seems there has been material removed from the monocoque/body shell by means of drilling… it is not possible to confirm that the structure of this vehicle is as per the manufacturer first intended,” wrote the DVLA.

If holes are drilled to fit driving lights, a radio aerial or a fire extinguisher the vehicle becomes "unroadworthy" in the eyes of DVLA and so cannot automatically retain it's existing registration status and plate number?

If so, how does that affect all the Works cars, for example, that have holes drilled all over the place? Do they need to forfeit their existing registration and apply again, with the likely result being a Q plate?

[Fanfaniracing]

I thought the same as Spider did. This would mean all rust or accident repairs are forbidden?

Here in Switzerland there are directives how a chassis has to be repaired or modified. If you hold up this directives you can do a lot of things.

It will then inspected at the MOT.

I only fit a Towbar last week to my Renault and had to drill two 12mm holes to fix it. Imagin i would life in GB...

[1071 S]

Don't you Guys have an Administrive Appeals tribunal ...or something similar??

My Daughter makes a very nice living representing the Minister (Ministers various actually) when one of their minions makes a decision affecting a citizen and said citizen goes to court seeking "natural justice".... ie a reversal or modification of the decision they're objecting to....

The Tribunal members are not (necessarily) lawyers but eminent citizens appointed by the Government to review administrative decisions made by the Government.

Before making an appeal to the tribunal one would go to the Ombudsman... another official appointed by the government who's job it is the examine complaints bought by the public against decisions made by Government entities... with the power to engage

Reading the report on Hagerties website puts the DVLA decision in a much more ridiculous light than Bitsilly's comments.....

Cheers, Ian

[Exminiman]

Truly staggering, so sorry to hear this but at least you have closure….

This is complete madness as we all know, how are the DVLA able to do this, is there a an engineering report to support their decision, I suspect not.

Their real motivation, I think, is that they dont want to be responsible, by proxy, for the general public converting cars to electric, with all the safety issues concerning high voltages and metal bodied cars….

Ok, parking the above, this ruling would mean, if not challenged, that the DVLA have cart blanche to remove a car from the road, for an aerial hole, wing mirror hole, seat belt hole, actually what ever they choose……..

Is there any engineering data on this? size of hole, position , what size is unacceptable, what position is unacceptable….? Etc…..I suspect not….

Unfortunately, as DVLA have the power to remove cars at will or as it suits ( in this case) they will carry on doing so until some one has the means or motivation to challenge them in court for clarification…

There is something very wrong when a government department can make up it own law on the hoof…..to suit its own purposes, this is not a healthy proposition in any country, this is why we have laws.

I really feel for you in this Ed, it is so bloody unjust…..and unfounded

EDIT Sorry its a bit if a rant…….

[Ronnie]

As mentioned in various posts above the DVLA are not stating a constructive (engineering wise) reason to you for their decision e.g. size of hole, method of forming, position on the monocoque etc They are not qualified, and should not be allowed to just carte blanche refuse without stating the valid engineering reasons, or principles behind their decision making. Take it back through your MP they can not be allowed to succeed in doing this.

[111Robin]

This won't prevent anyone drilling holes anywhere at all as you will never need to approach the dvla unless you are changing the classification of the vehicle as far as I can see. Why would they ever find out you had drilled holes for spotlights, would you volunteer to tell them ?, ofcourse not. I therefore don't agree with all of the scepticism around that this is as draconian as it is made out. In all of the years I've been involved with cars I've only had to "use" dvla once to have my ado16 keep its original reg after dropping off their system thirty years ago so they sent an inspector to make sure it was the same car. They have always had a system to "control" major changes, it's just unfortunate in this case that what they are saying is complete nonsense.

[Peter Laidler]

Just a litlle but important correction Exminiman and others. The DVLA and those other SEMI departmental government offshoots ending in A for Authority (such as the Highways Authority or the LA. Agency are NOT government departments. They are simple (?) acting as agents of the Government. In other words, they are semi autonomous QUANGOs.

Doesn't alter the facts of course. But they CAN be beaten and overturned, but alas, ONLY if they relent OR by the order of the Courts.

Let me tell you another thing....., not (?) relevant to our case in particular. But if (and it's a BIG if) they do relent and overturn their own former decision, then you can go and whistle for any costs incurred. They will tell you that only the COURTS can order costs. As they did in the case of the victorious Mk2 Lotus Cortina owner.

That's todays rant over and I feel better for it........

[Bitsilly]

The only plan at the moment is continue with the Information Commissioner to try and get the DVLA inspection report (which recommended retention of the original number plate).
Then my MP will use it as ammunition for another letter. I will then also ask him to sign off a complaint to the ombudsman.

The petition I started rocketed to around 300 signatures thanks to you lot, but the wording after 3 submission refusals was watered down so as to not upset anyone, so it is a bit lame and has to be sought out by interested parties. It has fizzled out.

I will continue to try and spread the word because if they get away with this they can use their ‘success’ to pick on any car they have any reason to dislike with implications for racers, rodders, and any car they want to remove from the road for any other reason (I’m pretty sure they will be able to find a hole somewhere and then it is up to the owner to prove that they did not drill it).

Until this is sorted I will never take a car to a show of any kind because you never know who might be there with a camera and a chip on their shoulder.

[Bitsilly]

Sorry to go on but finally I need to say that as a result of my posting information on various interest sites I have been contacted by lots of professional and private individuals owning cars as diverse as Land Rovers to Spitfires who have fallen victim to the drilled hole problem.
Life is too short to worry about something that chances are will never happen to you, but just be careful out there!