LONGBRIDGE Body Numbers

[peasantslife]

Outside of my interest in Mk1's I'm, lets say, active in the world of Rover BRM's. ( unique assemblage of parts bin performance powertrain, race developed unique chassis tune components and unique to derivative cabin trim - sounds rather similar doesnt it?)
Sadly neither Heritage Gaydon nor BMW Heritage know anything about the final ten years or so of Longbridge production...
I'm currently researching Body Numbers for the Rover R3 (200 Bubble on which the BRM derivative is built.)

I just wonder if anyone here has by chance landed upon a key to decifer the body number which is stamped onto a strip and welded into the boot floor? Or just happens to know who would know what West Works were doing?

Using Gaydons #J1 car as an example it has as its body number 3B314S 000215A.
The only part I can be confident about is the 215 which I take to be the 215th body of that type. (Why so high? because of the number of Pre Prod cars that would have been built in the preceding year to production launch)
Currently the prefix block of 6 characters I dont know, nor the post numeric second bloc Suffix.

All suggestions welcome as so far we have drawn a blank at the end of each line of enquiry made.

[surfblue63]

I guess you've tried the Rover forum.

https://www.rover200.org.uk/forums/

[peasantslife]

Oh yes... I am fully engaged with the 200/400 club as a parts source, and know very well the scope of knowledge there. I have also got strong contacts in the other groups covering the last few iterations of Rover aerospace/BMW/Pheonix.
BMW and Gaydon Heritage know nothing (fact is we already have considerably more data than they do).
The Longbridge Alumnae has been asked....
I also have had dealings with Pryors, who produced the marking equipment....
which is why its a case of spreading the net wide before the personal memory is lost.

[coopersean]

These look similar to the mini commission numbers - B20S...on 1980 and early 90's cars for example. A bit of info can be found here:

https://www.minimania.com/Mini_Chassis_ ... __Revised_

[peasantslife]

I appreciate the lead, I'll ask them... It is exactly this type of lead that just may provide the answers.

[Jug Hed]

Hi Peasantlife,

Sorry to be a pain, but could you check your PM's & emails please, to see if my messages to you got through. We could both have handy info on this topic.

Many thanks.

Regards,

Jug (Steve).

[Jug Hed]

I appreciate the lead, I'll ask them... It is exactly this type of lead that just may provide the answers.

Hi Peasantlife,

Sorry to be a pain, but could you check your PM's & emails please, to see if my messages to you got through. We could both have handy info on this topic.
I'm a bit new to this, so apologies for any duplications I may have sent you, as I may have got this wrong!

Many thanks.

Regards,

Jug (Steve).

[Jug Hed]

Outside of my interest in Mk1's I'm, lets say, active in the world of Rover BRM's. ( unique assemblage of parts bin performance powertrain, race developed unique chassis tune components and unique to derivative cabin trim - sounds rather similar doesnt it?)
Sadly neither Heritage Gaydon nor BMW Heritage know anything about the final ten years or so of Longbridge production...
I'm currently researching Body Numbers for the Rover R3 (200 Bubble on which the BRM derivative is built.)

I just wonder if anyone here has by chance landed upon a key to decifer the body number which is stamped onto a strip and welded into the boot floor? Or just happens to know who would know what West Works were doing?

Using Gaydons #J1 car as an example it has as its body number 3B314S 000215A.
The only part I can be confident about is the 215 which I take to be the 215th body of that type. (Why so high? because of the number of Pre Prod cars that would have been built in the preceding year to production launch)
Currently the prefix block of 6 characters I dont know, nor the post numeric second bloc Suffix.

All suggestions welcome as so far we have drawn a blank at the end of each line of enquiry made.

Hi,

Just read your post, and perhaps we can do a bit of 'mutual back scratching' here?

I have a similar problem, in that I am looking to replace the Body Number Plate on my very late Rover Mini Cooper Sport 500, which was 'lost' by the rouges at MBM Bristol following a repair to the Front Panel, many years ago.
That plate was embossed in a similar format, in my case 2 B20S ######A (where '#' represents the unique number).
Like yourself, I found Heritage to be of very little help on this matter, despite them still using this type of plate.

Ok, so I needed to do a bit of research through the old BMC Workshop Manuals to get some of this information, as their system looks like it started life way back to the 50's & 60's, but it was worthwhile in the end, if a little patchy & incomplete. I am no official authority on this mind, so I humbly stand open to correction if necessary!

Something to watch out for though, is confusion between Body, Commission & Chassis / Car Numbers, which is easily done, given their similarity, and often using the same letters and / or codes to mean different things on different plates, and even in different positions on the same plate!

However, I'll refer solely to the Body Numbers for now, as follows:

The first character (in your case a number '3'), indicates the 'Series' of a particular Body Style shown in the subsequent part(s) of the code. I.E. the 2nd numerical series of 'B20S' Mini bodies for mine, and (possibly) the 3rd series of Rover 200 body for yours. That being said, some 2nd generation 200's carry a number '5' here instead, so go figure!

The second character (a letter 'B' in both our cases), indicates the Body Style itself. For a Mini, it reveals which style of Front End is fitted, ('B' for an original 'round' front, 'D' for a 'square' fronted Clubman). I'm unsure how this works with a 200, as again Mk2's also have a 'B' here, despite having a different nose, although they share the same front bulkhead, but that is also true of the Mini.

The next two (or three) characters indicate the Project Code. In my Mini's case this is '20', which represents the old Austin Drawing Office (ADO) number of all Minis from 1969 onward. Some earlier Minis (particularly Mokes) have the number '15' here, and a Cooper or S will have '50' instead, as they were Project ADO15 and ADO50 respectively. (Mk2 Mini's had a leading '2' before this, as they were the second series, as mentioned earlier).
The Rover 200 Mk3 was Project Code R3, but I don't know what the following 1 & 4 mean. Interestingly, some Mk2 200's are marked '320' in this position, despite being Project R8, so the '3' could instead be a carry-over from the Mk1 200, which was Project SD3.

The last character before the 'Space' (a letter 'S' In both our cases) indicates the Body Type. In both instances, the 'S' stands for 'Saloon', although indication (or otherwise) as to whether there are two or four door apertures varies between vehicles. Confusingly, Mini Estates, Metro's and R8 Rover 200 hatchbacks carry the letter 'W' here, which stands for (Station) 'Wagon'. This is despite the R3 only ever being a hatchback (or a van). Again, go figure!

The next six characters following the 'Space' are, as you correctly pointed out, indicate the Sequential Build Number of that individual Body Shell. It is worth noting here that the number is only unique to that particular Style, Project, and Type of Shell, as the count was usually (but not always) reset to 000101, when a new 'Series' commenced.
For example, in the Mini's case, there would have been Saloon bodies marked B20S 000101 through to B20S 999999, then rolled over to 2 B20S 000101 onward, and so forth. Estates ('W'), Vans ('V'), Pick-Ups ('U' for 'Utility'), Mokes ('B' for 'Buckboard'), etc. would all have their own build sequence, usually (but not always) commencing 000101, rather than every shell being numbered consecutively by Pressed Steel Division once completed.

Finally, the very last character indicates the Assembly Plant. In both cases, the letter 'A', which stood for 'Austin', tells us that both shells were assembled at the Longbridge Factory. Earlier Mini's up until 1968 (and subsequently Marinas etc), were assembled at the Cowley Factory, so carried a letter 'M' here, unsurprisingly for 'Morris'.

This system seems to more or less hold for all BMC / BL / Rover vehicles, and appears on Body Plates from around 1964, up until about 2001. MG's & Rovers (including by then 25's) changed to a different type of Body Plate, more like that used for the old A Series Engine Number after that, commencing (for 25's), S RF3 ###### (the Assembly Plant Suffix henceforth being omitted, on account of there only being one one left by this time) until MG Rover eventually collapsed in 2005. I have no knowledge of whether Nanjing / SAIC continued with this format beyond that.
The old tooling seems to have gone to Heritage for Mini's & MGB's etc.

Hope this was of some help.

I'll send you a second message to see if you can help me too!

Many thanks.

Best Regards,

Steve.

[Jug Hed]

Oh yes... I am fully engaged with the 200/400 club as a parts source, and know very well the scope of knowledge there. I have also got strong contacts in the other groups covering the last few iterations of Rover aerospace/BMW/Pheonix.
BMW and Gaydon Heritage know nothing (fact is we already have considerably more data than they do).
The Longbridge Alumnae has been asked....
I also have had dealings with Pryors, who produced the marking equipment....
which is why its a case of spreading the net wide before the personal memory is lost.

Hi,

Steve here again, regarding the Rover / Mini Body Plate.

Hope the info I sent was useful to you?

As a starting point of reference (for the Mini anyway), I used BMC / BL Service Parts List No. AKD 5146, amongst a few other Official Microfiche files on a USB drive, plus a whole load of internet research, particularly under-bonnet and boot interior photo's of cars. Similar documents for other group models will possibly yield plenty of other clues.

So I'm hoping yo can help shed some light on my problem now too.

I noticed in this post you have established that Pryors made the marking equipment used for manufacturing the plates.

Could you be so kind as to let me know how you came by this information, and would you (or they) happen to know which Type Face, Font Size, part No's for the embossing dies & tooling etc. was used to produce the Rover Body Plates please?

Also, any other information regarding the plates ( e.g. the blanks used by PSF in West Press shop at Longbridge) or any contact details for anybody who might hold the key to reproducing this elusive item would be greatly appreciated. Fortunately, I still have a photograph of the plate before it's loss and all supporting doccumentation.
Any further information you may have since acquired about the numbering system would also still be gratefully received though.
This would be invaluable for restoring the originality of my beloved Mini.

With many thanks again in anticipation.

Best Regards,

Steve.
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