Two cylinder prototype engine

General Chat with an emphasis on BMC Minis & Other iconic cars of the 1960's. Includes information on MK1 Action days.
andy1071
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by andy1071 »

There are some "interesting" features in the picture....
The clutch is cable actuated.
The ball-pins on the gear-selectors maybe suggest a column-change..?
The rear mounting bracket looks too big to allow it to fit in a Mini subframe..?
It has a "proper" engine number tag, which suggests it was fitted to a road-registered car?
-But what?
The "non-Mini" clutch housing suggests it's pre-Mini.
Maybe a test-engine fitted to Morris Minor..?
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mab01uk
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by mab01uk »

andy1071 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:48 pm The rear mounting bracket looks too big to allow it to fit in a Mini subframe..?
The first prototype Minis did not have subframes to save cost, they were only added later when they realised that they needed to contain the suspension loads within one place. The front suspension cones were originally mounted directly onto the bulkhead cross member. However it bent from below because the static load at each wheel was a ton increasing to 2.5 tons when hitting a vicious bump. The loads were magnified by a rate of about 5 to 1 so the front subframe with its towers was added. This may be why the rear mounting bracket in the 2-cylinder engine photo looks too big for a Mini with a front subframe.

(I highly recommend anyone interested in the early development of the Mini to read the book which the photo and extract comes from for the full details, which I have not seen covered in depth in any other book:- "Mini: The definitive History" by Jon Pressnell).

Mini Prototype - Orange Box:-
http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?t=7132
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Spider
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by Spider »

It's great to see it's gone to the right shop and not just going to sit in the back corner of someone's shed until they passed and then got tossed out as 'junk'.

Obviously, a labor of love, I can see they have sunk a lot of time in to it so far, but it's clear it'll be a runner.
251 ENG
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by 251 ENG »

The guy I got it from had a contact to collect scrap from Longbridge.

He told me he had no end of weird and wonderful stuff over years including a complete 6 cylinder transverse engine on a mini box , that had been smashed so he scapped it .

Only ever saw him at one minj show at stoneleigh in the 1980,s
251 ENG
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by 251 ENG »

He had a load of other rare stuff like mega early moke barrel fuel tanks .

I will never forget seeing nick Rodgers walking off with an armful of straight pick up back bumpers :lol:
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mab01uk
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by mab01uk »

251 ENG wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:21 pm The guy I got it from had a contact to collect scrap from Longbridge.

He told me he had no end of weird and wonderful stuff over years including a complete 6 cylinder transverse engine on a mini box , that had been smashed so he scapped it .

Only ever saw him at one minj show at stoneleigh in the 1980,s
Concepts and prototypes : BMC 10X (1968)
"In terms of power, there might have been a little expansion left in the four-cylinder DX engine, which was nominally designed to be between 750cc and 1000cc in the 9X, although it would have been tough, given its Siamesed bored and tight tolerances. However, given Issigonis’s penchant for six-cylinder engines, it’s most likely he had the 1.2- to 1.5-litre six-pot in mind for the 10X.
The six-cylinder DX would, in fact, eventually find its way into an MG Metro-based prototype towards the end of the 9X programme in the mid-1980s – by which time, this was very much a back water project operated by Issigonis very much ‘off the clock.’
https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and ... s/bmc-10x/

1986 MG Metro 9X 6 cylinder turbo prototype
"Following his retirement in 1971, Sir Alec Issigonis continued to work for British Leyland as a consultant and this MG Metro is his last prototype. It was put on the road only eighteen months before his death and less than a year before his ‘Small Car Future Projects’ department was disbanded. Issigonis believed that this Metro would be an ideal showcase for the virtues of his experimental 9X, 6-cylinder engine.
Although Issigonis commented “the layout is very untidy because I only had two fitters to do the job in rather a hurry” in fact the installation is impressive. Usually an in-line 6-cylinder engine is too long to be fitted transversely across a small car. In this case the gearbox was placed under the engine in classic Issigonis style. The bulkhead has been modified to make space for the air cleaner and twin carburettors but otherwise the car is standard to show how a 9X engine might work in a modern hatchback of the 1980s. Unlike the Mini 9X prototypes, it retains its original suspension, even though this was the interconnected fluid ‘Hydragas’ system which he no longer endorsed."
https://metro.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ego-quoque/
gs.davies
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by gs.davies »

mab01uk wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:41 pm
251 ENG wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:21 pm The guy I got it from had a contact to collect scrap from Longbridge.

He told me he had no end of weird and wonderful stuff over years including a complete 6 cylinder transverse engine on a mini box , that had been smashed so he scapped it .

Only ever saw him at one minj show at stoneleigh in the 1980,s
Concepts and prototypes : BMC 10X (1968)
"In terms of power, there might have been a little expansion left in the four-cylinder DX engine, which was nominally designed to be between 750cc and 1000cc in the 9X, although it would have been tough, given its Siamesed bored and tight tolerances. However, given Issigonis’s penchant for six-cylinder engines, it’s most likely he had the 1.2- to 1.5-litre six-pot in mind for the 10X.
The six-cylinder DX would, in fact, eventually find its way into an MG Metro-based prototype towards the end of the 9X programme in the mid-1980s – by which time, this was very much a back water project operated by Issigonis very much ‘off the clock.’
https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and ... s/bmc-10x/

1986 MG Metro 9X 6 cylinder turbo prototype
"Following his retirement in 1971, Sir Alec Issigonis continued to work for British Leyland as a consultant and this MG Metro is his last prototype. It was put on the road only eighteen months before his death and less than a year before his ‘Small Car Future Projects’ department was disbanded. Issigonis believed that this Metro would be an ideal showcase for the virtues of his experimental 9X, 6-cylinder engine.
Although Issigonis commented “the layout is very untidy because I only had two fitters to do the job in rather a hurry” in fact the installation is impressive. Usually an in-line 6-cylinder engine is too long to be fitted transversely across a small car. In this case the gearbox was placed under the engine in classic Issigonis style. The bulkhead has been modified to make space for the air cleaner and twin carburettors but otherwise the car is standard to show how a 9X engine might work in a modern hatchback of the 1980s. Unlike the Mini 9X prototypes, it retains its original suspension, even though this was the interconnected fluid ‘Hydragas’ system which he no longer endorsed."
https://metro.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ego-quoque/
Something wonderful about six cylinder transverse engines. I remember when VW introduced the VR6 Golf, so much want for that! A six pot Metro would have been hilarious!!
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mab01uk
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by mab01uk »

gs.davies wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:23 pm Something wonderful about six cylinder transverse engines. I remember when VW introduced the VR6 Golf, so much want for that! A six pot Metro would have been hilarious!!
I agree....the Austin 2200 - Transverse 6-cylinder always fascinated me, a giant Mini!

Image
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Spider
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by Spider »

This is getting off topic here.

They did do a prototype V8 ADO17 here

Image

The Engine was Nth / South, but it was transverse front wheel drive.
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mk1
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Re: Two cylinder prototype engine

Post by mk1 »

Forcing a 6 cylinder transverse engine into a Mini Metro shows just how far from any sense of reality Issigonis had travelled by the time he retired. BL were very good to keep him on as a consultant, but it was a sort of charity case.
Mark F
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