How old is Triggers Broom?

General Chat with an emphasis on BMC Minis & Other iconic cars of the 1960's. Includes information on MK1 Action days.
Bitsilly
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

Regarding the project I am working on (and posted photos of previously on the other site).
All the bolt on parts, engine, VIN plate, wiper motor, blumells plates etc and heritage cert say a 1960 Austin 850

But I was wondering if I should do anything about the shell.
It has been patched and changed a lot over the years, and there are old photos showing major shell work.
The shell has both mid b-post and lower safety belt mounts (i.e. 63+) but the rear ashtray plates are not welded to the b-posts, and it is feasible the upper mounts are a later mod.
The sills are replacements too.
AFAIK the floors are correct for 1960 but someone pointed out the entire floor could have been changed.
The seat pivots are welded on but again someone pointed out that they could have been cut off another car and welded on.

Heritage could not help me with the body number but it starts with an A which may be a cooper number so front may have been changed.

What I am getting at is the shell has certainly got 1963+ features as well as 1960 features.
I could potentially revert all the changes back to stock 1960 but don't want to as I want seat belts.

My fear is it is just as feasible that it is a 63 shell as it is a 60 shell (but surely most 60 year old cars will have been repaired incorrectly over the years depending on what repair sections are available), so will DVLA/insurance company be able to argue that it may be a 1963 car, or illegal or has to be a Q plate?

I would obviously argue it is a 1960 car as per the paperwork because I want to restore it, not just sell off the bits!

The irony is that if it was certainly a 60 shell, I would be changing it to 63 spec to take seat belts!
Is it OK to carry on with the restoration as the shell is worry free?

Cheers

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woodypup59
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:28 pm
Location: London UK

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by woodypup59 »

Have you got an FE number ?

ETA Has the shell got recessed fornt and back screens.

I guess anything could be changed but I'd be surprised if someone fitted a 59/60 floor to a later car.

Does it have the original front panel ? Or single skin A panels ? Brass hinges ? Doors that drain horizontally ?

Bitsilly
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

I will have to check some of that.
There is an FE number which I am asking Simon about, but as I said, I think a lot of the front has been replaced, possibly with bits from a Cooper.
The bottom of the front windscreen is not recessed, then after a weld at the bottom of the side posts it is by about 2mm around the lip!
The hinges are brass and doors, boot and bonnet are all correct 1960 according to the 59 register details and the 'Factory' book.

I know it is inconclusive, I just want to know if I could get in trouble legally, even if it isn't a 1960 shell I don't care as it would be built either way with the parts there and I am having safety belts.

Bitsilly
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

I have just put my finger on what I am worried about!
There is a lot of knowledge on here which I would like to glean but only with no worries and nothing to hide
Unfortunately one or two have gleefully pointing out 'A-HA!' points, repeating my phrases sarcastically, and shooting down my initial enthusiasm that I was going to be restoring a Mk1.
I will try and do the car justice either way, and although I can happily ignore nay-sayers, but I was concerned about their points. If they are that bothered about the details of my shell, perhaps I should be?

Bitsilly
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

https://youtu.be/BUl6PooveJE

A little reminder!
I too have photos!!

imack
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:06 pm
Location: Kent

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by imack »

I'd say if you're building it for yourself as a keeper to enjoy then retain the additions/features that you like.
If you're building it for maximum resale value then it's going to need the shell to correct period specification.
At least you own a 1960 mini, the nit pickers probably don't!

Bitsilly
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

Thank you.
That is a perfect feedback.
I am indeed building it for myself.
Cheers

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mab01uk
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Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by mab01uk »

Bitsilly wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:29 pm
I know it is inconclusive, I just want to know if I could get in trouble legally, even if it isn't a 1960 shell I don't care as it would be built either way with the parts there and I am having safety belts.
Should the DVLA ever need to inspect your car it is highly unlikely they would have the specialist knowledge that 'anoraks' like us have on the subtle differences between a 1960 and a 1963 Mk1 shell so I would not worry about it too much legally, especially if the car is for you and not just being quickly sold on for a profit.....its not quite as clear cut on inspection as the differences between a late Mpi Mini with a tax exempt Mk1 V5 logbook and registration attached!
Therefore the DVLA usually rely on a recognised list of car clubs for the marque to confirm ID inspections for them, so you would be able to sort out the likely outcome in advance with a usually helpful and friendly club official. eg. 1959 Mini Register can do this for a fee.

Bitsilly
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm
Location: Wales

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Bitsilly »

Phew!
I would be good with that, and it is enough for me to proceed.
Long live my anoraked friends.
Many thanks
Ed

Minisprinter
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 7:32 am

Re: How old is Triggers Broom?

Post by Minisprinter »

mab01uk wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:44 pm
Bitsilly wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:29 pm
I know it is inconclusive, I just want to know if I could get in trouble legally, even if it isn't a 1960 shell I don't care as it would be built either way with the parts there and I am having safety belts.
Should the DVLA ever need to inspect your car it is highly unlikely they would have the specialist knowledge that 'anoraks' like us have on the subtle differences between a 1960 and a 1963 Mk1 shell so I would not worry about it too much legally, especially if the car is for you and not just being quickly sold on for a profit.....its not quite as clear cut on inspection as the differences between a late Mpi Mini with a tax exempt Mk1 V5 logbook and registration attached!
Therefore the DVLA usually rely on a recognised list of car clubs for the marque to confirm ID inspections for them, so you would be able to sort out the likely outcome in advance with a usually helpful and friendly club official. eg. 1959 Mini Register can do this for a fee.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I had my mk1 inspected as it's an import, the guy that came round from the DVLA new exactly what he was looking at, once he realised i wasnt trying to pull one and car was as claimed we had a good chat, some of the stories he told me about people claiming the car was one thing and obviously not what he was looking at were real gut busters, but they do realise a lot of genuine old cars have had extensive body work etc

MS

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