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 Post subject: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:24 am 
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What are the differences between a 1071, Cooper or 850 body shell. Are they the same as a 1275 S.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:01 am 
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Not a huge amount, except the value. :lol:

As long as they are from the same age, there's not a lot of variance between an 850, or Cooper shell. Just small details.
Anything specific you are questioning?


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:51 pm 
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But those small details can have a big impact on value.

You can modify an 850 shell to use for a Cooper, but there are a lot of small details that would need to be addressed.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Highnumbers wrote:
But those small details can have a big impact on value.

You can modify an 850 shell to use for a Cooper, but there are a lot of small details that would need to be addressed.


Thanks guys just curious as to what the small details are. Would be very helpful when looking at a potential car to buy as so many fakes out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Some of the details are year-specific, versus model-specific. So doing detective work on the shell's manufacturing date can help you avoid buying a re-shell.

For example (hydrolastic pipe clips on 64-67 models; front valence venting cut-outs on 65-67 shells; etc.). The main telltale between an 850 and Cooper shell is how clean the cutout is for the remote shifter (compared to the magic wand type), and a blanking plate should be included over the magic want hole on all Cooper shells.

Plus, if there's a RH fuel tank, there is specific mounting brackets and locations for the hardware on the rear bulkhead.

I could go on, but here's a better write-up on the subject from Mini Mania.

Beyond this, there's a lot of threads on this forum if you search for them. Also recommend picking up the best books on Mk1 details, including John Parnell's "Original Mini Cooper and Cooper S" and James Taylor's "Factory-Original Mini Mk1 & Mk2"

On a final note - I don't think it's possible to tell a difference between a late Cooper shell and a Cooper S shell from the same year (except for two mounting holes for the brake servo). They were basically interchangeable by 65-67, especially after twin tanks became standard issue on both models.

--------------------------

Quote:
Bodywork

There are a number of subtle differences between Cooper and standard Mini body work:

- Gear lever: All British Mark 1 and Mark 2 Coopers have two gear lever holes - one for the Mini 'magic wand' gear lever at the front of the floor-pan, and one for the remote change lever in front of the hand brake. The 'magic wand' hole is covered with a pressed-steel plate which is sealed and screwed in. Both gear lever holes are made as part of the floor-pan pressing process and are very difficult to fake as it is difficult to cut the holes as neatly as in the factory pressing. The remote change hole can easily be inspected by unscrewing the gear lever boot surround.
- Boot floor: There are several brackets to support the boot board - these were riveted in place until 1966, from which time they were spot-welded in place.
- Window trim: Front and rear side windows on all Coopers are trimmed in chrome (stainless steel on later cars.)
- Front panel: Later Cooper S models may be fitted with a modified front panel pressing designed to accommodate an oil cooler. This front panel features a grille stay that is tilted on an angle, rather than the standard Mini vertical stay.
- Opening rear windows: Standard Mk1 saloons had non-opening rear windows (though deluxe models had opening rear windows as well.)
- The floorpan should have 21 hydrolastic pipe clips spot welded to it, if a hydrolastic model.
- The rear of the car should have reinforced bump stop contact areas and extra reinforcing in the boot if hydrolastic.
Cooper S models should have factory-drilled holes in the inner wing for the brake servo mounts, and also in the boot area for the right-hand tank mounts. Non-S Coopers did not have these holes.
- Two metal straps should be visible on the rear bulkhead from inside the car on twin-tank models. These are part of the restraint for the right hand fuel tank.
- All models should have a radiator shroud welded to the inner wing.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Most of the differences are easy to reproduce, and in some ways telling the differences are not as simple as the above post makes it sound. Most original Cooper shells Ive ever seen have a remote cut out that's been ragged about over 50 years, even to the point that they look home made! Mk2 Mini 1000s also had a remote cut out remember. Most of the details listed can be added to an 850 shell to Cooperise it and let's face it folks most Mk1 Ss are reshells, it's a fact and if you're looking for one in it's original shell it'll probably have had alot of it replaced by now anyway so you may be looking at a new floor pan on an original shell and possibly assume it's not!

So in essence if you're looking for an S or a Cooper and insist on originality you just have to take the car as a whole picture, add all the shell details up, look at the history, resto pics, pre resto pics especially, does the car hang together as an original? Usually there's a few things or inconsistencies that just give the game away and some cars (if you're lucky) just scream originality. A set of boot brackets or door chromes do not an original car make, and neither does their absence sometimes!

Some of the shell dating details, usually indicate if the shell's the right age and there's lots of those. Alot of reshells use a slightly wrong age shell and this is usually the first indicator.

Alot of the cars that turn up restored nowadays look like flatpacks before you even get within six foot of them, depends what you're looking for. If you're spending big money it definately pays to take someone with you who knows their stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Pete wrote:
Most of the differences are easy to reproduce, and in some ways telling the differences are not as simple as the above post makes it sound. Most original Cooper shells Ive ever seen have a remote cut out that's been ragged about over 50 years, even to the point that they look home made! Mk2 Mini 1000s also had a remote cut out remember. Most of the details listed can be added to an 850 shell to Cooperise it and let's face it folks most Mk1 Ss are reshells, it's a fact and if you're looking for one in it's original shell it'll probably have had alot of it replaced by now anyway so you may be looking at a new floor pan on an original shell and possibly assume it's not!

So in essence if you're looking for an S or a Cooper and insist on originality you just have to take the car as a whole picture, add all the shell details up, look at the history, resto pics, pre resto pics especially, does the car hang together as an original? Usually there's a few things or inconsistencies that just give the game away and some cars (if you're lucky) just scream originality. A set of boot brackets or door chromes do not an original car make, and neither does their absence sometimes!

Some of the shell dating details, usually indicate if the shell's the right age and there's lots of those. Alot of reshells use a slightly wrong age shell and this is usually the first indicator.

Alot of the cars that turn up restored nowadays look like flatpacks before you even get within six foot of them, depends what you're looking for. If you're spending big money it definately pays to take someone with you who knows their stuff.



Thanks everyone most helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:03 am 
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Highnumbers wrote:
On a final note - I don't think it's possible to tell a difference between a late Cooper shell and a Cooper S shell from the same year (except for two mounting holes for the brake servo). They were basically interchangeable by 65-67, especially after twin tanks became standard issue on both models.


Just for clarity, the twin tanks were only ever standard or options on the S model from the UK. The standard Coope and Mini models never had that option throughout their model life as far as I am aware.


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 Post subject: Re: Body shells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:21 am 
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Location: California, USA
Thanks for the clarification. I’m more familiar with the S models, it’s news to me that twin tanks were never standard for the 998 Cooper. Thought they were at least options for the Cooper though?


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