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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:59 pm
Posts: 764
Location: Aberdeen Scotland
(continuing the drift so apologies first of all) It must be very difficult to make any classic Mini safe for impact. With so little in front of the driver to dissipate any frontal impact energy it has to go somewhere. If some of the energy produced by the deceleration of the driver via the belts is dissipated somewhat by distortion of the parcel shelf/rear structure is this better or worse than an infinitely rigid belt support resulting in internal organs taking the brunt of the energy ?. Difficult to say. Obviously clattering your boat on the wheel isn't good either but in the absence of an airbag there's no other likely outcome. I suppose if built for racing the likelihood of a full on frontal impact into a solid object is unlikely anyway so the tire walls etc. would do their job with the belts/structure taking far less energy as a result. On the open road however I'm not so sure, but then we all know the crash limitations of an old Mini so drive them knowing the risks. Best not to think about it too much or we'd never leave the house :roll: . I learned a lot about impact energy absorption fairly recently as a lot of subsea equipment has to be designed to still operate safely after being hit by a length of drill pipe coming like a torpedo from the surface. It was then a challenge to start reducing the stiffness of the structure to allow it to deform where you wanted it to such that the critical areas were subjected to far less energy. It was a real eye opener running FEA on the structures trying to ensure they deformed as opposed to just having a massive stiff bomb proof thing that would have survived a nuclear attack !! (drift over)


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:02 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Solihull, UK
rich@minispares.com wrote:

it was poorly fitted harnesses that did poor john rhodes in, his accident ripped the parcel shelf out the car and pulled the back panel in by about 2-3" - it certainly contributed to him smacking his face into the steering wheel quite hard



Thought it was a Mustang?


Back on subject, was the car registered with a Birmingham number plate?


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:35 pm
Posts: 856
Location: Abingdon Oxfordshire
Wifeys citrus Patrick Motors one was registered POE


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:41 pm
Posts: 41
[quote="Simon776"]Patrick Motors were founded in the 1930's. They had five sites of their own in Birmingham in the early 1960's but their main site was in B29 (Selly Oak) and as Austin main dealers (not distributors until the mid 1960's) at that time they would have supplied a number of the other Austin dealerships in that south west part of Birmingham. There is no way of knowing if they supplied a particular car to its first owner unless there is a paper trail such as the original Austin guarantee.

[quote]

Thanks...so no way of knowing for sure, but possible if they were not a distributor at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:16 pm
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Hipwell wrote:
rich@minispares.com wrote:

it was poorly fitted harnesses that did poor john rhodes in, his accident ripped the parcel shelf out the car and pulled the back panel in by about 2-3" - it certainly contributed to him smacking his face into the steering wheel quite hard



Thought it was a Mustang?


Back on subject, was the car registered with a Birmingham number plate?



It was actually a Camero that punted John off. But it was the sudden stop into the tyres that crumpled the car up so bad.

The debris shotgunned my car and another few feet he might have actually hit me on his way back out. I honestly thought it was going to be a lot worse than it was.

_________________
should you wish, you can contact me on rich@minispares.com

'long beard boss'


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:45 am
Posts: 173
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Off topic again, if anyone is interested I can post in a separate thread photos of the BMC crash testing done on the Clubman GT here in Australia. Also the engineering drawings for the reinforcement of the parcel shelf to accommodate seat belt mounting points.


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:40 am
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winabbey wrote:
Off topic again, if anyone is interested I can post in a separate thread photos of the BMC crash testing done on the Clubman GT here in Australia. Also the engineering drawings for the reinforcement of the parcel shelf to accommodate seat belt mounting points.

Yes if you can. Nothing wrong with information. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Motors Group
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:08 pm
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111Robin wrote:
(continuing the drift so apologies first of all) It must be very difficult to make any classic Mini safe for impact. With so little in front of the driver to dissipate any frontal impact energy it has to go somewhere. If some of the energy produced by the deceleration of the driver via the belts is dissipated somewhat by distortion of the parcel shelf/rear structure is this better or worse than an infinitely rigid belt support resulting in internal organs taking the brunt of the energy ?. Difficult to say. Obviously clattering your boat on the wheel isn't good either but in the absence of an airbag there's no other likely outcome. I suppose if built for racing the likelihood of a full on frontal impact into a solid object is unlikely anyway so the tire walls etc. would do their job with the belts/structure taking far less energy as a result. On the open road however I'm not so sure, but then we all know the crash limitations of an old Mini so drive them knowing the risks. Best not to think about it too much or we'd never leave the house :roll: . I learned a lot about impact energy absorption fairly recently as a lot of subsea equipment has to be designed to still operate safely after being hit by a length of drill pipe coming like a torpedo from the surface. It was then a challenge to start reducing the stiffness of the structure to allow it to deform where you wanted it to such that the critical areas were subjected to far less energy. It was a real eye opener running FEA on the structures trying to ensure they deformed as opposed to just having a massive stiff bomb proof thing that would have survived a nuclear attack !! (drift over)


As well as internal organs taking the brunt of energy in a very stiff structure like a full caged Mini with no crumple zones, many race drivers were killed by severe whiplash neck injuries...not helped by the extra weight of a drivers helmet. It is an additional expense but had the Hans device been mandatory in circuit racing back in 2001 my brother Steve Bell might have survived his Mini Miglia crash at Silverstone. The Mini Seven Club tried to improve their safety regs afterwards but as you say it is difficult to build modern energy absorbing crumple zones into a classic Mini with so little space and structure to build upon.......or if it was possible you would probably need a F1 team budget and technology.......

The Hans device do seem to work....Andrew Deviny had this nasty crash in his 7 in 2015 and luckily had bought a HANS Device the week before:-
Watch from 3.40 onwards....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfaYDzguePg


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