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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:28 pm 
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mk1coopers wrote:
My modern car has all sorts of driver aids to keep it on the road and gizmo's to keep the occupants entertained, on the daily commute this is just what I want a car to be, I grew up with a MK3 850 in tabbaco yellow as my first car which I resprayed island blue and snowberry white then slowly cooperised as time / money / insurance allowed, it ended up as a reasonably quick car that was my daily transport for 10 years, when I drive the MK1 it's purely for pleasure so I don't want it to do anything apart from entertain me, which it does (and also seems to do for everyone else judging by the amount of looks they get and the amount of time it takes to get out of fuel stations :lol: )

Modesty prevents you from saying so but the island blue and white 850 turned into a Cooper lookalike once featured on Top Gear. I know because I went with you up to Silverstone where the filming was done. It was a good feature that they ran as the car was being compared with a MK3 S in a monotone orange. Side by side they were trying to show that the blue/white car could easily be mistaken for a Cooper but in truth wasn't, and the Mk3 S could have been mistaken for anything but an S but was!

In fairness to Mk1CooperS he has always been upfront about the car and has never tried to say that it was anything other than what it is. It's an old argument but problems only really arise when an owner intentionally deceives and tries to make out that it is the real McCoy, I guess for reasons of financial gain. Don't go there, the subject has been done to death!

Going back to the Top Gear filming part of it was hilarious and I have never forgotten! Tony Mason was the presenter and part of his script called for him to say that the Cooper S had a 130 mph speedometer. Each time he was about a minute into what he was saying but when he got to the speedo bit he fluffed his lines! I think he kept forgetting that '130' was the important number! Take 2 - Roll. No, no, cut. Take 3 - Roll no, no cut. He got there in the end but anything I saw him saying on Top Gear after that always carried the question 'I wonder how many takes that took?'!!

Graham


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:48 pm 
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foxy52 wrote:
mk1 wrote:
It's dead simple it's all about purity of design.

This is something that applies to much much more than just mini's. I'm 53 & I have lots of very wonderful memories of my Mum & Grandma driving Mk1's, and watching people thrashing Mini's up Harewood hill from a very early age, but it's not really that that brings me back to Mk1's over & over again. It's something about early versions of mechanical things being closer to what the designer intended, warts & all.

The MK1 was such a superb design concept, it did everything that it needed to & nothing that it didn't need to. Ok, it wasn't perfect, but who wants perfection?

Like a Mini, the MK1 VW Golf GTI is always looked back on as the "best" Golf GTI, it's not the most powerful, it's not the best handling, it's not the most comfortable, it's just the best. Not for a tangible reason, just because it is.

I am sure that many people can think of many other examples of this phenomena, not just me.

If we were all looking for the "best" small car none of us would be driving Mini's, or even 1100's for that matter :lol:
...I agree with the above not least the fact I am 66 and old enough an fortunate enough to have owned brand new from West Sussex Motors the Brilliant Mk1 Golf GTI..for in its day there were few faster or better handling cars on the road.. I drove my mars red marvel on the south and south west coast for a year and only saw 2 others !!! ....that's how rare they were....many thought it the natural progression from owning a mk 2 mini cooper or cooper S mk3... it was for me ...I just wanted newer cars !!!.. foxy52


I remember at launch in 1976 VW said there would not be a RHD version of the GTi ! So for a couple of years the few to seen on UK roads were LHD but VW eventually gave in to demand from dealers and offered a RHD version of the GTI in 1979 which quickly boosted sales in the UK.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:02 pm 
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WMU 211G wrote:
As for the actual development of the Mini, in hindsight I've sometimes wondered if BMC / BL management ever talked to each other because the major changes to the bodyshells across all the variants seemed to be spaced out for some reason - the Elf and Hornet got wind up windows and interior door hinges three years before the Mini saloons, yet the vans and pickups kept their sliding windows right up to the very end. I read somewhere that the Mk2 range was meant to have them too but there wasn't enough money in the kitty to get it done in time.


It is on record (from ex-BL cost engineers) that an 850cc A-series engine cost more to produce in the later years than a 998cc because of the lower volumes in production.....even though the 850 Mini had to be sold to the customer for less it actually cost more to build! :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:45 pm 
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GrahamWRobinson wrote:
mk1coopers wrote:
My modern car has all sorts of driver aids to keep it on the road and gizmo's to keep the occupants entertained, on the daily commute this is just what I want a car to be, I grew up with a MK3 850 in tabbaco yellow as my first car which I resprayed island blue and snowberry white then slowly cooperised as time / money / insurance allowed, it ended up as a reasonably quick car that was my daily transport for 10 years, when I drive the MK1 it's purely for pleasure so I don't want it to do anything apart from entertain me, which it does (and also seems to do for everyone else judging by the amount of looks they get and the amount of time it takes to get out of fuel stations :lol: )

Modesty prevents you from saying so but the island blue and white 850 turned into a Cooper lookalike once featured on Top Gear. I know because I went with you up to Silverstone where the filming was done. It was a good feature that they ran as the car was being compared with a MK3 S in a monotone orange. Side by side they were trying to show that the blue/white car could easily be mistaken for a Cooper but in truth wasn't, and the Mk3 S could have been mistaken for anything but an S but was!

In fairness to Mk1CooperS he has always been upfront about the car and has never tried to say that it was anything other than what it is. It's an old argument but problems only really arise when an owner intentionally deceives and tries to make out that it is the real McCoy, I guess for reasons of financial gain. Don't go there, the subject has been done to death!

Going back to the Top Gear filming part of it was hilarious and I have never forgotten! Tony Mason was the presenter and part of his script called for him to say that the Cooper S had a 130 mph speedometer. Each time he was about a minute into what he was saying but when he got to the speedo bit he fluffed his lines! I think he kept forgetting that '130' was the important number! Take 2 - Roll. No, no, cut. Take 3 - Roll no, no cut. He got there in the end but anything I saw him saying on Top Gear after that always carried the question 'I wonder how many takes that took?'!!

Graham


A good couple of days out Graham, I think I might still have the episode on VHS somewhere :lol: , 130 mph ashtray at one point wasn't it ! ,taking your Moke for filming the 'Brittas Empire' was another great day out :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:29 am 
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WMU 211G wrote:

As for the actual development of the Mini, in hindsight I've sometimes wondered if BMC / BL management ever talked to each other because the major changes to the bodyshells across all the variants seemed to be spaced out for some reason - the Elf and Hornet got wind up windows and interior door hinges three years before the Mini saloons, yet the vans and pickups kept their sliding windows right up to the very end. I read somewhere that the Mk2 range was meant to have them too but there wasn't enough money in the kitty to get it done in time.


Yep, and the mutants also got the 998 engine first, before the Cooper. What was the price difference between a Mk2 998 Elf/Hornet and the 998 Mk1 Cooper anyone?. And the Mk3 Elf/Hornet and the Mk2 Mini 998 and Cooper? And also , considering that the mutants were supposed to be the upmarket Mini why did they never get the optional Cooper style factory recliners or extra fuel tank?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Pete wrote:
WMU 211G wrote:

As for the actual development of the Mini, in hindsight I've sometimes wondered if BMC / BL management ever talked to each other because the major changes to the bodyshells across all the variants seemed to be spaced out for some reason - the Elf and Hornet got wind up windows and interior door hinges three years before the Mini saloons, yet the vans and pickups kept their sliding windows right up to the very end. I read somewhere that the Mk2 range was meant to have them too but there wasn't enough money in the kitty to get it done in time.


Yep, and the mutants also got the 998 engine first, before the Cooper. What was the price difference between a Mk2 998 Elf/Hornet and the 998 Mk1 Cooper anyone?. And the Mk3 Elf/Hornet and the Mk2 Mini 998 and Cooper? And also , considering that the mutants were supposed to be the upmarket Mini why did they never get the optional Cooper style factory recliners or extra fuel tank?


And why didn't the Coopers get the same colour combo choices as the Mutants...?!!

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Nidge

1968 Mk2 Morris Cooper S
1994 Jap Mini 1275 Auto 'project 70s backdate'


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:10 pm 
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If you think about it the discussion on colours bears out the whole argument. There appears to be a general consensus that the original concept, design or whatever you want to call it, was in the vast majority of cases the best. We are concentrating on the Mini but you could say the same of the E Type Jaguar and the Ford Mustang and I guess a load of other vehicles. They were improved on technically as that is the nature of development but they weren’t necessarily improved on aesthetically. So you start with the best and the big question is where do you go from there in terms of aesthetics, or shall we say what is pleasing to the eye?

That then brings me back to colours and the Mini, particularly the Mini Cooper. As I said the discussion on colours bears out the whole argument. Pretty much the best colours were used around the time the Mini Cooper and S first appeared. Mostly vibrant colours in keeping with the Mini Cooper’s sporty image. As time went on and a desire to update or improve the car they had to go for colours that hadn’t already been used. A bit like being offered a chocolate and the box is virtually empty save for a couple of chocolates you don’t much fancy!

Is that a fair argument or were they just bl……y awful at picking out attractive colours?!!

Graham


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Nicely put Grahame. Some of those earlier shades were still available on other cars in the BMC range but the Mini's colour palet became a bit diluted towards the end of the '60s, the nreinvigerated with the early Mk3 colours.

As for technical development and improvement the Lamborghini Miura is a good example of each version being slightly better than the last. The original Miura had a habit of twisting its chassis under stress, the Miura S which followed it had heavier gauge steel in its chassis to compensate for this, while the Miura SV from '71 onwards had a wider rear track and separate engine and gearbox oil, a massive improvement over the earlier versions.

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Nidge

1968 Mk2 Morris Cooper S
1994 Jap Mini 1275 Auto 'project 70s backdate'


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:25 pm 
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On the subject of colours what I didn’t liked back in the day I’ve changed my view on many of the colours that the Elf, Hornet and upmarket 1100 / 1300 had and now view them as very rich and period. I’ve an Arianca Beige over Sandy Beige Riley Kestrel combination. Back in the day I thought it was a terrible colour scheme. We also had a Riley Elf in Arianca Beige with a Pale Ivory roof with cardinal red interior and that was very period. I remember in the sixties our neighbours and the two sisters both had the upmarket Mini. One had a Cumberland Green / Old English White with porcelain green interior Riley Elf. The other had a Whitehall Beige / Florentine Blue Wolseley Hornet and I recall it had power blue seats. I have always liked that Whitehall Beige Florentine Blue combination.

On the subject of prices, I’ve a September 1965 price list for the Riley and Vanden Plas. The Elf including purchase tax cost £596.18s.9d. The Kestrel cost £780.16s.9d. and the Vanden Plas 1100 cost £925.18s.9d.


Those were the days :D :D :D

Alan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:07 pm 
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:D I agree with you supersonic. I have an elf in Arianca Beige with white roof. When I first got it I thought it was the a disgusting colour, and no one, would ever like that !!! Now I think its ok and very period. Times change. :)


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