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Problems concerning reclaimed registrations. What should be done?
1. The government (i.e. DVLA) should tighten up the system. It has been too lax for too long. 17%  17%  [ 18 ]
2. Any change to the system should be applied retrospectively. 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
3. The involvement of cars clubs vetting applications needs to be substantially tightened up. 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
4. The vehicle and supporting evidence should be physically inspected at the time an application to reclaim a registration number is first made. 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
5. Major parts should be officially die-stamped before any restoration work begins. 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
6. A vehicle should once again be physically inspected when it is ready to be MOT’d. 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
7. A substantial fee (£100 or more) should be paid for any inspection. 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
8. A better system be put in place to report to the DVLA dubious reclaimed registrations. 14%  14%  [ 15 ]
9. A recorded chassis or VIN number should show that a re-shell has taken place. 12%  12%  [ 13 ]
10. Who cares, it doesn’t concern a vehicle I own. Leave the system exactly as it is. (No need to answer any of the other 9 questions.) 5%  5%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 105
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:08 pm 
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To be really honest Pete, in answer to your Q above, it was so long ago that I really don't remember the inns and outs of it all except for the interesting ones that I was involved with.

One 'scrapper' that I was involved with that was looking dodgier and dodgier as it went along was a written off 1850 Dolomite that the owner didn't realise that had been written off following the accident - so he decided to 'rebuild' it! Not realising that as soon as it was to be resurrected and registered again and taxed, that he'd get a visit. Which duly happened. To be honest, he was a thoroughly nice likeable bloke but clearly a crook because now the car wasn't the damask Dolomite now, but a cream/honeysuckle one, that had started its life as a LATER one and a different sized engine. Even for a bit of a thicko like me, it rang alarm bells as I had a 'ringer' on my hands. He explained later that while looking for a new/used wing and front panel for his write off, he came across another Dolomite, a honeysuckle one, with a stoved in side that was BETTER than his damask one. So after 9 months.................... Is anyone still reading all this old crap..............? of tin bashing and fixing, he registered his now 'fixed' damask Dolomite which had changed to honeysuckle AND was a later chassis number AND later registration. BUT, he just wanted to keep it as the older written off damask car. Are you still with me? Keep up in the back row........... The upshot was that because he was a nice likeable bloke and while he might have been a bit devious - but there was no victim - we reported back that on a technical level and basis, that he could/should now be the keeper of the later 'R' registered (and VERY nice) honeysuckle Dolomite and should be issued with documents for THAT car and the damask 'N registered car should be stuck/written off.

Most people have a clear and unambiguous paper trail, had taken advice and knew exactly what they were doing. Generally......, and it is hard and difficult to say this, the hold-ups and stupidity came from the junior ranking clerks at DVLC who simply lacked technical expertise and understanding. Sorry DVLC of the 80's, but that's how it was. I even got a surprise visit when I went to register a Norton Commando that had been stripped for spares and left to become dormant which I rebuilt over a nice warm summer. I wonder where EHV25L is now!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Peter, didn't you have a similar involvement with the scrap remains of BJB 77B ?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Stop it...............


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:15 am 
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Probably wouldn’t hurt to stop the (legal) trade in fake (cough cough), I mean “reproduction” chassis plates, engine plates, FE plates etc etc.

Maybe each one of these “originals” should bear a little stamp along the lines of “Reproduced courtesy of HM Ministry of Transport”... or some such. Just in case someone was tempted to fit one to a car to which it didn’t belong.... Or the one to which is does belong but which has had its real plates unfortunately (cough cough) misplaced.

Cheers, Ian


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:16 am 
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With respect, what additional layer of 'authentication' would that bring along?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Re the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (FBHVC) they give guidance as to how a registration number can be reclaimed but do they go any further than that?

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and-fuels/dvla-and-dvsa/

I agree with what Mk1CooperS says in that no individual is ever going to sort the problem out but I wonder if an independent body such as the FBHVC might? In other words vehicles of concern are flagged up to the FBHVC by possibly several individuals and when the FBHVC can see a clear cut case that the law has been flaunted they take the matter further. Doing it this way would circumnavigate any idea that the car clubs themselves might get any problems sorted especially as some of the car clubs are actually part of the problem.

Who knows more about how the FBHVC operates? Would this be within their remit?

Graham


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:57 pm 
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FBHVC have been instrumental in returning the number plates of historic competition Minis to their rightful owners after lengthy battles (Not court cases!)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:15 pm 
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1071 S wrote:
Probably wouldn’t hurt to stop the (legal) trade in fake (cough cough), I mean “reproduction” chassis plates, engine plates, FE plates etc etc.

Maybe each one of these “originals” should bear a little stamp along the lines of “Reproduced courtesy of HM Ministry of Transport”... or some such. Just in case someone was tempted to fit one to a car to which it didn’t belong.... Or the one to which is does belong but which has had its real plates unfortunately (cough cough) misplaced.

It's a good point and the apparent ease of buying the various plates can put a final nice touch to a ‘restored’ vehicle that isn’t quite what it purports to be. That’s not to say that the sale of such plates should be stopped as there are many above board restorations where a new plate is necessary because the original has genuinely been lost (no cough, cough for this one!) or is badly damaged. What I don’t know is if any documentation on the vehicle now needs to be produced before the suppliers will make up the plate needed. Certainly you have to by law if you want to buy a new number plate as you can see here:

https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/getting-number-plates-made-up

If no such law is in place for chassis plates, FE numbers, etc. then perhaps it should be. That would be a help.

It’s understandable why the VIN is now stamped on the vehicle and you can see how the government have tightened up on this when you read what they say here:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/vehicle-identification-number

If we are talking about the registration of rebuilt vehicles here’s what the government says:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

If I read it correctly you can use a shell of the type that the vehicle had originally but in addition you have to comply with the following:
You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:
• suspension (front and back)
• steering assembly
• axles (both)
• transmission
• engine

On the face of it it seems fair to ask for 2 other major components from the original vehicle but at this point you can see how it is easy to satisfy the authorities and their rules. For example take ‘suspension (front and back)’. In the case of the Mini how on an inspection could they disprove that the suspension was not from the original vehicle? As long as it was the suspension to the correct specification then who is ever going to say that it was or wasn’t from the original vehicle? Much the same can be said for the other major components that they list and as already discussed an engine can even sport the correct engine number! Incidentally unless they interpret it differently I can’t see that a Mini has ‘axles (both)’ and as for ‘transmission’, other than taking it to pieces, how can the gearbox be inspected?

On old vehicles they say this:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles

Finally here’s what they say on the reconstruction of classic vehicles:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles

It’s a well used phrase but this whole thing is yet another ‘can of worms’. It’s no wonder that there are people out there who have been able to do what they have and in doing so made a very tidy sum out of their ‘restorations’.

Graham


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:50 pm 
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As requested in the first posr, please refrain from refering to specific cars & reg numbers & try & keep the discussion general in nature.

Thanks,

Mark F

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Mark F
I am not a number, but you can get me on 0800-555-555


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:02 pm 
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A car’s true originality is very important in my book. Forget about the registration, it is much less important in my view. The problem I have is with logbooks and body shells that have never met before in their lives and the same could probably be said for the rest of the parts. The end result is nothing more than a “log book false restoration” or perhaps a “replica” The problem is that some Mini Works cars that now exist have been totally re-shelled using little of the original and leaving little or nothing that constitute a genuine car. This factor makes it pretty much impossible to determine whether or not any parts on this car were ever in Abingdon. Sorry if truthful questions annoy some people.

Alan


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