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Problems concerning reclaimed registrations. What should be done?
1. The government (i.e. DVLA) should tighten up the system. It has been too lax for too long. 17%  17%  [ 18 ]
2. Any change to the system should be applied retrospectively. 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
3. The involvement of cars clubs vetting applications needs to be substantially tightened up. 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
4. The vehicle and supporting evidence should be physically inspected at the time an application to reclaim a registration number is first made. 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
5. Major parts should be officially die-stamped before any restoration work begins. 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
6. A vehicle should once again be physically inspected when it is ready to be MOT’d. 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
7. A substantial fee (£100 or more) should be paid for any inspection. 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
8. A better system be put in place to report to the DVLA dubious reclaimed registrations. 14%  14%  [ 15 ]
9. A recorded chassis or VIN number should show that a re-shell has taken place. 12%  12%  [ 13 ]
10. Who cares, it doesn’t concern a vehicle I own. Leave the system exactly as it is. (No need to answer any of the other 9 questions.) 5%  5%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 105
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:13 pm 
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There was all sorts of shenanigans went on in the 80s and 90s, a Mini breaker up this neck of the woods was just one character amongst a dozen who all knew each other and passed cars and parts around. The Cheshire region of the MCR alone had half a dozen cars nicked in the 90s, including my own Tartan Red and Black Morris Cooper S. From where I’m stood I think all the dodgy characters still know each other, no change there.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Peter Laidler wrote:
Yes, but they were generally formerly written off cars or 'otherwise contentious' including those previously regarded as 'dormant' seeking re-registration
. Does ‘written off’ also include scrapped? Not that DVLA knew what had been previously scrapped in the 60s and 70s anyway cos they binned all those records in the late 70s when they computerised, in the process opening up a huge loop hole for the unscrupulous to “reclaim “ any dead registration they wanted. No coincidence then how so many famous number plates, and some not so, suddenly reappeared in the 80s and 90s with a nice bright shiny new chassis plate. I sincerely believe that those particular skeletons are the reason DVLA have tightened up so much in recent times , with many an innocent applicant being given a hard time!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Pete wrote:
then there was the ex Ian Walker Racing 1071 who's paperwork turned up on Ebay a few years ago (exported from the Midlands ;) ;) ),


I don't often quote myself and slightly off topic but the car advertised as that Ian Walker Racing 1071 is now back on Ebay as a...998 Cooper! That's the third identity this car has appeared on Ebay with over the years!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1966-Morris- ... ken=cUgayN


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Unfortunately I think there's very little that can be done by an individual if they suspect a car isn't what it's being represented as, you would open yourself up to all sorts of potential legal issues without definitive proof and deep pockets.

I find the recent threads that have been started about various cars that have come up for sale have been very interesting when we've all put our heads together with info we have in a sensible way, what buyers (and the big auction houses) should do is satisfy themselves that what is in front of them is what it's claiming to be, certainly if it was a painting or other artifact that's origins were in doubt they would pull it from sale, if no one buys a car then no 'profit' can be made from it and in theory if it remains unsold for a long time the reasons for that will become more and more well known, possibly to the authorities that may be interested in those reasons.

It just comes down to money, when there's profit to be made (from either a standard car or one with history) certain people will be tempted to provide what the market wants and certain people will be prepared to buy them without doing their own research


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:33 pm 
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mk1coopers wrote:
Unfortunately I think there's very little that can be done by an individual if they suspect a car isn't what it's being represented as, you would open yourself up to all sorts of potential legal issues without definitive proof and deep pockets.

I find the recent threads that have been started about various cars that have come up for sale have been very interesting when we've all put our heads together with info we have in a sensible way, what buyers (and the big auction houses) should do is satisfy themselves that what is in front of them is what it's claiming to be, certainly if it was a painting or other artifact that's origins were in doubt they would pull it from sale, if no one buys a car then no 'profit' can be made from it and in theory if it remains unsold for a long time the reasons for that will become more and more well known, possibly to the authorities that may be interested in those reasons.

It just comes down to money, when there's profit to be made (from either a standard car or one with history) certain people will be tempted to provide what the market wants and certain people will be prepared to buy them without doing their own research.


Mk1coopers, you make a good point. I'm minded of the great Anthony Newley song 'Who Can I Turn To' If you want me to be honest, I think Forums like this have exposed many fake cars. Perhaps honest people know where to turn to is my thinking. The World Wide Web also has made the world a small place :D

Alan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:35 pm 
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mk1coopers wrote:
Unfortunately I think there's very little that can be done by an individual if they suspect a car isn't what it's being represented as


Totallly agree and why would anyone go to the trouble anyway but writers, publication editors, auction houses, car clubs and the media can be less liberal about what they say and how they present, not that many will as everybody loves a story don't they and most have a 'product' to sell using those stories , be they true or fabricated. It didn't take long for Brian Jones to describe the Italian Job replicas (built from cherished plates) as the real cars on his TV show and the owner didn't exactly put up a fight! :lol: To my mind though it's a con and the object of the con is to fool the public so they can sell them their 'product'!!

The down side is that the bogus just serve to devalue and deligitimize the genuine!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Pete wrote:
mk1coopers wrote:
Unfortunately I think there's very little that can be done by an individual if they suspect a car isn't what it's being represented as


Totallly agree and why would anyone go to the trouble anyway but writers, publication editors, auction houses, car clubs and the media can be less liberal about what they say and how they present, not that many will as everybody loves a story don't they and most have a 'product' to sell using those stories , be they true or fabricated. It didn't take long for Brian Jones to describe the Italian Job replicas (built from cherished plates) as the real cars on his TV show and the owner didn't exactly put up a fight! :lol: To my mind though it's a con and the object of the con is to fool the public so they can sell them their 'product'!!

The down side is that the bogus just serve to devalue and deligitimize the genuine!!


Absolutely, selling their product comes down to money again, 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story' and all that, thing is on subjects we know about we know if the story is right or wrong, on other items we don't, that's where the Internet comes in these days, if I was in the market to buy 'something' (what ever that may be) I'd be doing the research to see what information is out there first (that's not to say that people won't spread false rumours about perfectly legitimate objects to try to discredit them). Some people either have the money to not care or they are so desparate to believe the story they convince themselves it's true :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Pete wrote:
Peter Laidler wrote:
Yes, but they were generally formerly written off cars or 'otherwise contentious' including those previously regarded as 'dormant' seeking re-registration
. Does ‘written off’ also include scrapped? Not that DVLA knew what had been previously scrapped in the 60s and 70s anyway cos they binned all those records in the late 70s when they computerised


Sorry to have to go back to this but it's a pretty crunch question. Peter?

If a car has been previously scrapped then the current data system will show it. So what if it was scrapped before the records were binned? Is there a case to legitimately bring a car back to life like the Pheonix from the ashes once it's been scrapped?

I suspect the answer has got to be NO! Even if some remnant reappears some years later. I would imagine if the answer was YES then we'd all be out there applying for logbooks for interior we'd found, engines, dashes or bootlids to reanimate the cars from!!?? It's fair to say that original documents of provenance seem to carry much more weight nowadays, which in itself is no bad thing but the system can never be failsafe if cars are reborn from a couple of old snaps and an MOT certificate! A buff logbook, (as you can see from their selling price on Ebay!) is virtually the golden key! Yes of course you could say it means more cars back on the road but what happens if and when the original turns up!?

Lets not confuse this question with the old reshell debate, cos as far as I'm concerned it's not related, if a logbooks always been in existance then who's to say what the hell the car should have to look like, we're talking about the reclaimation of registration documents.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:33 pm 
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There is a bloke over here in Northern Ireland who has two Cooper S cars for sale. He can provide for each car both UK or Northern Ireland registrations :( :( :(
How come?

Alan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 pm 
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At this juncture it is worth pointing out that this subject this far is not completely about red & white cars. I very much regret it transcends to normal run of the mill Cooper S cars :( :(

Alan


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