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 Post subject: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:13 pm
Posts: 3106
Location: North East
With the introduction of the T-Charge in London for pre 2004 cars is this the beginning of the end for motoring by the lower classes, and the beginning of the end for classic motoring?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/ownershi ... ocid=edgsp

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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:18 am
Posts: 283
We may be forced to convert to electric someday as a means of keeping our classics on the road...


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:47 pm
Posts: 7205
It's just an attempt to improve air quality overpopulated cities, our rocketing population growth may have something to do with it. I don't think it'll affect most of us cos from my experience cities like London and Manchester are pretty much devoid of classic cars anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:55 am 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:10 am
Posts: 2404
Location: Big Red, Australia
Has the congestion tax worked for London? If that has, then I guess this too may also work.

I'm a little cynical where it comes to introducing selective taxes like these, they may work as announced in the UK, but here (Aust), they have been shown time and again to have little effect, other than another means for the Gov. to raise funds.

In regards to Classic Motoring, I think and especially for you guys in the UK, the classic car industry is just too big and generates far too much to the economy to shut it down, it's obviously not a top liner, but it would be a reasonably sized employer and I think there's a fair chunk that goes in to exports for the UK.

Certainly in these parts, the Gov. has actually been fostering the classic car scene the past 5 or so years, much more so than previous years.


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 343
Location: London UK
Spider wrote:
Has the congestion tax worked for London?


Well yes in as much the number of cars visiting has gone down, so the tax take has gone down, so the London Council is considering hiking the charges to keep the money rolling in.

Whether air quality in London has improved is debatable. But bear in mind that millions of tons of CO2 and other pollutants are being dumped in London by the Cross Rail projects' diesel powered mining equipment.

The taste and smell of the air at my sons place near Wimbledon (and under the Heathrow flight path) would suggest that air quality is still bad.


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:10 am
Posts: 2404
Location: Big Red, Australia
So just a revenue raising effort then.

In this day and age, the way cars are, the amount of 'pollution' emitted from them is really so low, it would take a LOT of cars to make any really 'pollution', so reducing the number of them in an area by 25 - 30% (by taxing them) as you've pointed out woodpup, isn't going to make any difference when all pollution making items are taken in to account.

Why don't they just look at how inefficient they are and how they waste money rather than trying to get more money in and do less with it. It's one of my pet hates. Turn back the clock 50 years, they did 5 times more with a tax base of 10% what it is today. And it was all paid for, not on the never never like it is now.


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:04 pm
Posts: 103
China is fairly over populated and still the majority of the pollution comes from Heavy industry, not personal motor vehicles.


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 888
How often do any of us drive our old cars into the congestion zone anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:47 pm
Posts: 7205
The countless chugging buses produce most of the smog in London, you don't hear much about them! Same thing with climate change, when does air traffic ever get a mention? It's always the motorist that gets it!


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 Post subject: Re: The End Is Nigh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:21 pm
Posts: 1280
Having just returned from China I can agree with 69k1100. They are miles ahead of us with hybrid vehicles, and their own BYD taxis are all electric. Apparently they joke that BYD meant 'build your dreams' but now means 'bring your dollars'. Their big cities have populations in excess of 10M. Unfortunately they still generate most of their electricity from coal fired power stations.


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