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 Post subject: Re: "Downton Cooper S" ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:39 am 
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Location: Boxford, MA
mk1 wrote:
For what it's worth, I reckon that GH started off honestly & was finding good cars, restoring them well & selling them on for good money.

As his reputation as an ace restorer & finder of genuinely historic Minis grew (particularly in Japan) it became harder & harder to find original interesting cars to restore & sell. The solution to this was easy, start to make them up out of bits & fit them out with fake histories & recycled logbooks. Remember a lot of this went on in the "good old days" before the internet & the DVLA couldn't give a stuff, so it was relativity easy.

As time went on, he seems to have become greedy which was when the same car was produced more than once & sold in different parts of the world. I believe one of the KDK cars had this treatment.

Some of the cars that Greg sold were undoubtedly correct, the Broadspeed GT & the Healey soft top for example, others are more difficult to pin down like the red one in this thread. there is something about the history & provenance that doesn't tie up, but is that much of a problem to the average punter, maybe it isn't that much removed from a lot of Ss on the road today.

Then there are the out & out fakes that were made to deceive, GPH 111 C springs to mind, this was a registration number from an MG grafted onto a nicely presented fake racer sold as the Real thing to someone too daft to check.

I understand from a friend of mine that he does have outstanding charges against him in japan, relating to his past activities.

And I even wonder if he is sitting somewhere reading this now. I think it is certain that he still slips the odd Mini out through friends or business contacts. Last time I heard of him (indirectly) I was told that he had a sandwich shop somewhere on the England / Welsh border & was still wheeler dealering selling High end watches & classic guitars. I believe someone spotted him not that long ago on one of those Pawn shop programs on Day time TV selling a Rolex or something similar.


Pretty spot on description of his descent from what my Dad knew at the time. He was desperate enough as the parts dried up that he was sending invoices chock full of parts he didn't actually ship, to use as a write off.

There was a point a some years back that he was sure he had tracked Greg down in connection with an eBay account out of Japan. He recognized a lot of the parts the guy was selling and contacted him but the guy said he had never heard of this GH fellow. A someone else said, he did have a Japanese wife, so it was a possibility.

And I know I've mentioned it to a few folks here but if anyone ever does happen to come across him, I'd appreciate if you let me know or let him know the Joe Barbera passed away. Lord knows why but he had a soft spot for that scoundrel and had been trying to track him down just to catch up, for some time.

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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:47 pm
Posts: 8100
Beggars belief that this car is still being described as it is..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162979184718?ul_noapp=true

The previous and very last owner of the scrapped 777MCG was at Blyton and is not happy!!


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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 am 
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Location: In the Village.
I just love the way that the supposedly original Downton paperwork bearing the registration mark 850 MCG is dated weeks before the registration number 850 MCG was first issued. As a matter of interest, when it was issued it was on an Austin A35 not a Mini Cooper S. The Hampshire records for this period are surprisingly complete :mrgreen:

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/archives/hals- ... ration.htm

I don't usually get involved in disputes like this, but I honestly can't understand why someone who has some authority in these matters isn't making a HUGE song and dance about it!

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I am not a number, but you can get me on 0800-555-555


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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:07 pm 
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The thing aswell with this as Mark says is that it's not just a matter of opinion, we're always being shot down for those and sometimes you could say rightly so. Its a matter of plain fact, easily established from registration records that the details on this car do not add up. Odd really, if the infamous creator (admired by quite a few though amazingly) had ditched the idea of making fake paperwork he probably would have got away with it. Well, he still has up to yet! Its also fair to say that had the last owner of 777MCG not got him to sign an affidavit stopping him from claiming ownership of the 777MCG number plate once the original documents were stolen this car would not just be using it's chassis number and selected portions of it's history it'd now be wearing that famous Downton number plate.

I agree with Mark, why is it down to a few odd bods like us to flag this sort of stuff up, this sort of fraudulent activity is still viewed entirely passively in certain quarters that's pretty obvious!!


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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:09 pm 
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On the MOT exemption thread I'm sure that someone mentioned a forum member was associated in some way with the DVLA, perhaps if they are reading this they could 'make enquiries', the Cobra that was on an unused chassis number had it's identity pulled.


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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Posts: 1101
I can understand how a car built from parts can gain the registration and chassis numbers from a car which DID exist once. We all know that has happened.

What I find harder to understand is how a car can be built up, then gain the registration and chassis numbers from two DIFFERENT cars which were never together in the first place when that can fairly easily be proved :o. MAD.

I must say that if I was the owner of the original car/documentation/chassis number I would have been talking to somebody in authority before now......If not to gain anything for myself, at least to stop somebody else doing so.

I had to jump through enough hoops to get my own completely genuine Mk1 "S" registered a few years ago. It beggars belief that this can happen really.


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 Post subject: Re: "Downton" Cooper S??
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Old English White wrote:
It beggars belief that this can happen really.


Its not a thing of the past, it goes on even now and it's the same group of crooks doing it. The clubs should have a zero tolerence to it.


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