The worst cars ever made....

A section dedicated to non Mini related conversations that some members may find disturbing, worrying or offensive. If you are likely to be troubled by non Classic car related content, I would suggest you avoid!
User avatar
Peter Laidler
Posts: 2922
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:35 pm
Location: Abingdon Oxfordshire

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by Peter Laidler »

Talking of rusting-out while still new Nick, MG Rover must get the prize there. A FULL year after mini production had ceased, there was an aerial photo of the old USAF Upper Heyford air base (used for car storage) in the local Oxford Mail. It showed probably several thousand unsold, new MGRover cars including rows and rows of Minis, all with grass growing up to the bottoms of the doors. No wonder we still see the tail end of the X reg's, a years worth(?) of Y and running into the figure types of number plates. Oh well.......
User avatar
mab01uk
Posts: 5136
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:08 pm
Location: S.E. England

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by mab01uk »

Peter Laidler wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:16 pm Talking of rusting-out while still new Nick, MG Rover must get the prize there. A FULL year after mini production had ceased, there was an aerial photo of the old USAF Upper Heyford air base (used for car storage) in the local Oxford Mail. It showed probably several thousand unsold, new MGRover cars including rows and rows of Minis, all with grass growing up to the bottoms of the doors. No wonder we still see the tail end of the X reg's, a years worth(?) of Y and running into the figure types of number plates. Oh well.......
That may also explain why so many of the last MPi Minis rusted so badly, including in places that Minis never used to rust very much!
nick@dunsdale
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by nick@dunsdale »

You would have thought after 41 years in production, they would have nailed mini rust problems :lol:
But I think the body build quality just wasn’t there in the last few years
The best repairs go un-noticed
User avatar
mab01uk
Posts: 5136
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:08 pm
Location: S.E. England

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by mab01uk »

The MPi upgrades were a significant investment for BMW to overide Rovers plan to end Mini production in 1994 and allow BMW to extend Mini production to 2000 with no gap before the introduction of the new R50 MINI. The available budget was mostly spent on the Multipoint injection and engine upgrades to improve emissions, front rad to improve drive by noise (eliminated engine driven fan noise), airbag SRS system, etc to pass new EU regs. The interior and carpets quality was also improved plus many more options were added lke Sportpack, etc to justify a much higher selling price because it was no longer to be marketed as a cheap economy car, as the high labour (no robot) build costs in production made that no longer viable. Unfortunately it appears the investment did not stretch to the added cost of modern rust proofing which was probably not considered essential for 5 more years of very low volume production on an old 1950's design that would be difficult to rust proof to modern standards..... :cry:
nick@dunsdale
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by nick@dunsdale »

mab01uk wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:23 am The MPi upgrades were a significant investment for BMW to overide Rovers plan to end Mini production in 1994 and allow BMW to extend Mini production to 2000 with no gap before the introduction of the new R50 MINI. The available budget was mostly spent on the Multipoint injection and engine upgrades to improve emissions, front rad to improve drive by noise (eliminated engine driven fan noise), airbag SRS system, etc to pass new EU regs. The interior and carpets quality was also improved plus many more options were added lke Sportpack, etc to justify a much higher selling price because it was no longer to be marketed as a cheap economy car, as the high labour (no robot) build costs in production made that no longer viable. Unfortunately it appears the investment did not stretch to the added cost of modern rust proofing which was probably not considered essential for 5 more years of very low volume production on an old 1950's design that would be difficult to rust proof to modern standards..... :cry:
I understand that but there still seemed to be a lack of quality in the build of the shell's i have seen MPI's with the front screen out and the quality of fitment of the scuttle panel to the windscreen aperture is one particular area that springs to mind very gappy with dubious looking spot welds
Even the upper dash rail rots out on this model dont often see early minis rotting in this particular area unless there has been a water leak for a very long time, also the fittment of the sill's is another area of question in quality.

But your right it was good that BMW extended life to 2000 still gave us another 6 years worth of cars to preserve
The best repairs go un-noticed
66Traveller
Posts: 861
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by 66Traveller »

nick@dunsdale wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:26 am
mab01uk wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:23 am The MPi upgrades were a significant investment for BMW to overide Rovers plan to end Mini production in 1994 and allow BMW to extend Mini production to 2000 with no gap before the introduction of the new R50 MINI. The available budget was mostly spent on the Multipoint injection and engine upgrades to improve emissions, front rad to improve drive by noise (eliminated engine driven fan noise), airbag SRS system, etc to pass new EU regs. The interior and carpets quality was also improved plus many more options were added lke Sportpack, etc to justify a much higher selling price because it was no longer to be marketed as a cheap economy car, as the high labour (no robot) build costs in production made that no longer viable. Unfortunately it appears the investment did not stretch to the added cost of modern rust proofing which was probably not considered essential for 5 more years of very low volume production on an old 1950's design that would be difficult to rust proof to modern standards..... :cry:
I understand that but there still seemed to be a lack of quality in the build of the shell's i have seen MPI's with the front screen out and the quality of fitment of the scuttle panel to the windscreen aperture is one particular area that springs to mind very gappy with dubious looking spot welds
Even the upper dash rail rots out on this model dont often see early minis rotting in this particular area unless there has been a water leak for a very long time, also the fittment of the sill's is another area of question in quality.

But your right it was good that BMW extended life to 2000 still gave us another 6 years worth of cars to preserve
I ordered a new MPI back in 1998 and had it converted by John Cooper Garages. I discovered one day that the car had no paint on much of the underside - primer if I was lucky. How much extra would it have cost to underseal them? I sold the car after a year (during which time the engine mountings failed and second gear began to become worryingly notchy). It subsequently required a full body rebuild two years later as I discovered from a subsequent owner - windscreen surround, front wings, A panels, boot floor and repairs to the floorpans.....
User avatar
mab01uk
Posts: 5136
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:08 pm
Location: S.E. England

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by mab01uk »

I think by the time of the MPi Minis much of the body tooling was pretty worn and had seen better days, with Rover/BMW only doing minimal or essential maintenance on what was now a stop gap in the range living on borrowed time until the launch of the R50 MINI. If Longbridge was anything like the mechanical engineering industry I work in, the 'older' workforce and Quality Contollers who used to be able to compensate for worn press tooling and production equipment which is past its best, have long since retired or been made redundant by top management more used to robot technology, who think anyone with minimal skills can be brought in to do the same job. This tooling later inherited by BMH may also be why some of the Heritage shells and panels today leave something to be desired in the quality department.....

The windscreen scuttle panel as mentioned is a common rust point on many later Minis but rarely a problem on earlier Minis. It has been suggested this problem became much worse when the wider windscreen rubber was introduced.

I think that Minispares sum up the choice below.......= more rust!

"Although designed to stop windscreens from leaking this seal does hold water under the extra lip causing rust on the bodywork aperture if the rubber is perishing or going hard through weather exposure--to save rust many owners now fit the earlier rubber-see CZH1719MS for earlier type.
The later wider rubber which was fitted to cars from 1992-2000 to help stop leaks but was more prone to holding water causing rust unless a quality sealant is used, the part number is CCB10011MS.
https://www.minispares.com/product/clas ... 719MS.aspx

"Fitted from late 1992 and on all MPI cars 1996 on it has an extra lip to give a neater seal line to help quieten down windscreen/panel vibration noise on the "drive by" homologation tests."
https://www.minispares.com/product/clas ... 011MS.aspx

I think the MPi windscreen glass is also thicker and heavier (6mm) in the MPI to meet later safety regulations.
madaboutcherry
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:26 am

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by madaboutcherry »

i used to work at an alfa dealer in the'80s and we had a guy that bought a new gtv6 every 2 years. after he'd had his latest one for a few weeks he noticed a few rust patches, so he complained to alfa romeo, only to be told that his new car was older than the one he'd just part exchanged.
nick@dunsdale
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Re: The worst cars ever made....

Post by nick@dunsdale »

madaboutcherry wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:32 pm i used to work at an alfa dealer in the'80s and we had a guy that bought a new gtv6 every 2 years. after he'd had his latest one for a few weeks he noticed a few rust patches, so he complained to alfa romeo, only to be told that his new car was older than the one he'd just part exchanged.
I worked in a Hyundai dealership in 1991 and we got in two Hyundai stellars that had sat in a compound for two years.
We had to change the seat covers as they were sun bleached also had to repaint the airfilter boxs as they had rusted

The cars were sold to local taxi firm and registered as new at the time
The best repairs go un-noticed
Post Reply