oiling bores and bedding in cams - new build

[Jono]

I've always used plain engine oil and had no problems with glazed bores before, but that was with Ford units.

Supposedly the A series is highly susceptible to the rings not bedding (according to Lord Des) and he recommends WD40 on the bores. However I was told by my 'engine man' never to use WD40 as the rings will not bed in due to it containing silicone (never realised it did). So there are 2 diametrically opposite bits of advice

My gut tells me just to lightly oil the bores with standard engine oil and ensure the motor is not 'babied' in the initial miles - run it straight away, don't labour it, and allow cylinder pressure to do the work. This has always worked before, albeit on other engines.

Spider - as ever your wise advice would be welcomed!

Here's another one - the dark world of cam bedding. My new Kent cam and followers were supplied with no lube - I'm using Redline assembly lube everwhere else (save for the bores of course). Redline do not specifically mention this lube in the context of cams - can I use it for that purpose or do I require the 'made for purpose' stuff?

As ever, thanks in anticipation.

Jon

[mk1]

I have always used normal engine oil on the bores & cam lube on the cam. Never had an issue with things not going as they should.

M

[Spider]

Hey - how come I get singled out!

I have read Des's advice and I have to say, I wouldn't do it. I've also heard some coff coff builders say to fit them bone dry. IMO, both of these would work, ie, get the Rings sealing and quite quickly, but I've noticed that a fast run in always leads to a fast run out (or worn out).

I've always followed the manufacturer's (of the rings) advice and they all say Oil the ring when fitting and that's exactly what I've done and it seems Mark ^ also. I'm yet to find a manufacturer who suggests WD40 or fitting dry.

In regards to that all critical first start, I do agree with Des's advice there, ie, as soon as it's running, like within that first 10 seconds, get some load on the engine until it's up to some temperature, then 2 or 3 times (no more), in 4th gear accelerate with wide open throttle from 2000 to 3000 RPM. This first Run I tend to do no more than about 2 - 3 minutes in all, bring it back to the workshop and check everything over (leaks mainly) looking for issues. More often than not, I'll leave it over night, re-torque the head, re-set the tappets and if all is OK, go for a 20 - 30 minute drive, let the Cam and Followers bed in.

I'll add here that I use a Running In Oil (Penrite), for the first 500 km (with Iron Rings, longer for Chrome).

<EDIT: I'll add too that I (or have done when I can't do it) Plateau Hone the bores as a final step in the Honing process. I think most machine shops do this. Basically it knocks the very sharp tips off the finish from Honing. It does make for a (slightly) slower Run In process but does lead to longer Ring life. >

[Spider]

Sorry, I didn't include any info on the Cam stuff.

The bedding in of Cams is for different reasons to that of the Rings in the Bores.

Fresh Ground steels don't absorb oil too well at all. So this is the issue with Cam Shafts and the Followers. I tend to use Molly Grease, same stuff as in our CV Joints for a Cam Lobe lube when building. It really only is needed for the first few moments on initial start, until the Crank gets some speed up and there's plenty of Oil being fed and flung about, this is why (almost universally) all Cam Grinders ask for the first 20 minutes to keep the engine speed above 2000 RPM.

<EDIT: While a Cam lube is a good thing to use when building, don't over do it as it can interfere with or even prevent the Rings for Bedding In. I do use 'Cam Lube' if the engine will be started very soon (within 2 - 3 days) of the Lube being applied, any thing longer than that, the grease is better as it doesn't run off. >

[mk1]

I skimmed over the cam bit of the question really. The cam lube I use is a coloidal graphite grease called "Graphogen".

http://www.graphogen.co.uk/

As recommended to me by Harry Ratcliffe himself.

[trevorhp]

My experience for what it's worth....
When we received either a new or rebuilt race engine we always ran them on a mix of the recommended engine oil and ZX1 additive.
The ZX1 has properties which appear to fill in the micro scratches left behind by even the most dedicated engine builders, after all polishing is only more refined scratching etc. etc.
We also ran our race gearboxes on Castrol oil and ZX1 additive (illegal but if you drained it after testing there was no residue detectable).
I have to say in all my years in racing, we never had any bearing failures in our gearboxes and the wear on dog rings was noticeably reduced.
ZX1 do make an engine oil and we did try it in an F3 engine with pretty amazing results. However NBE warned us that we were in breach of our lease terms so we stopped using it, they were getting quite a sum from us to replace worn parts though and that may have influenced their 'advice'.
I never ever rebuild anything without first applying ZX1 to the bearing/wearing surfaces.

I have no connection with ZX1 and other 'additives' are available
p.s. you can buy it from Halfords it's not expensive and you do not need much.

[wantafaster1]

Couldn't find any came lube when I recently did it so I used Wynn's oil additive on the lobes. Consistency of treacle or golden syrup.

The best thing to do is be careful and make sure you aren't going to have any water leaks etc. and get it on the road as soon as possible. And run if not too slow and not too fast, plenty of hill climbing.
I know of 2 FFord engine builders, one apparently does the rings dry. I wouldn't be brave enough.

What about 3in1 instead of wd40?

[smithyrc30]

I skimmed over the cam bit of the question really. The cam lube I use is a coloidal graphite grease called "Graphogen".

http://www.graphogen.co.uk/

As recommended to me by Harry Ratcliffe himself.

Second the use of graphogen for cam lobes. Also the valve tips get a small blob.

I use Molybdenum di-sulphide 50% with engine oil for the piston (wrist) pins, rings and crank bearings. Engine oil in the bores and loads of it, then fit the pistons. White petroleum grease in the oil pump.

[dklawson]

Footnote to the above: "Regular" WD-40 does not contain silicones. (See the link below and click on the link for "what does WD-40 contain". At one time I thought it did contain silicone and mentioned this on a message board where I was promptly corrected. Whatever it is, I would not use it as an assembly lube.

http://wd40.com/faqs

I use motor oil in the bores and have not had any issues.

[mk1]

"Regular" WD-40 does not contain silicones.

That's my "Something learned every day fact for today.

M

[850man]

[quote="Spider"]Hey - how come I get singled out!


Because you are NSW's No. 1 Guru

How is that Rusty old Moke going anyway?

[Spider]

Hey - how come I get singled out!

Because you are NSW's No. 1 Guru

How is that Rusty old Moke going anyway?

Hey mate!

Moke's undergoing some careful TLC before it's next big desert adventure - some 32 years in the planning!

How's the rust-bucket Rat Van going for you mate?

Been head to head lately on the track with your best mate?

[Jono]

Good comments, many thanks.

I think I have the remnants of a tube of Graphogen lurking in the workshop somewhere so I will use that on the cams.

...and regular engine oil on the bores (and a puff of Vim down the carb throat - only joking )

Jon

[Exminiman]

My experience for what it's worth....
When we received either a new or rebuilt race engine we always ran them on a mix of the recommended engine oil and ZX1 additive.
The ZX1 has properties which appear to fill in the micro scratches left behind by even the most dedicated engine builders, after all polishing is only more refined scratching etc. etc.
We also ran our race gearboxes on Castrol oil and ZX1 additive (illegal but if you drained it after testing there was no residue detectable).
I have to say in all my years in racing, we never had any bearing failures in our gearboxes and the wear on dog rings was noticeably reduced.
ZX1 do make an engine oil and we did try it in an F3 engine with pretty amazing results. However NBE warned us that we were in breach of our lease terms so we stopped using it, they were getting quite a sum from us to replace worn parts though and that may have influenced their 'advice'.
I never ever rebuild anything without first applying ZX1 to the bearing/wearing surfaces.

I have no connection with ZX1 and other 'additives' are available
p.s. you can buy it from Halfords it's not expensive and you do not need much.

Sorry, bit if a post resurrection, but was reading this with fascination....as I always assume additives, are a bit like Snake Oil, would you use the ZX1 for running in as well .

[trevorhp]

Yes absolutely
It is a very good product.
Trevor

[Exminiman]

thanks for reply Trevor, so no worries about things not having enough friction to bed in ?
Cheers
Marc