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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:57 am 
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Supersonic wrote:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839547

This is a friends car and it needs nothing, will out perform a GT :lol:

Alan


that two tone works really well on that

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should you wish, you can contact me on rich@minispares.com

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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:02 am 
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Location: Oop North where it's dark & cold nearly all the time.
And sensibly priced too!

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Mark F

1933 MG J2
1943 Willys MB
1961 Morris 850
1963 Minisprint
1965 Speedwell S
1965 Hornet
1967 Austin Cooper S
1968 Terrapin
1968 Downton Tuned 1300 MK2


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Posts: 289
Location: Dorset
Supersonic wrote:
This car looks very original to me to be honest. If it was not so far south I would have an interest in it myself. David Rachael on here has this model and some refer to this as the Mk1.5 MG 1300, very rare.

The MG 1300 was built between October 1967 and September 1971. There were three models, the first having a single carb, 58 BHP and full leather interior, the second model had twin carbs, 65 BHP and the seating trim was in ambla (plastic) with horizontal pleats.The third model had the 70 BHP power plant and close ratio gearbox, improved seating with a centre rear armrest, modified dashboard layout with 3 circular instruments including a rev counter, smaller leather steering wheel with alloy centre boss and rocker switches.

This car is the middle period model and they are as rare as rocking horse droppings. The engine is the standard 1300 specification but the block is special in that it has not got a window above the centre main bearing. These solid wall blocks have been all used for motorsport I regret to say. They also have the forged large pad rocker assembly the same as the S. That model should be snowberry White in colour which it may be if washed :lol:

I hope this rare child will not get broken up to get the rare engine :(

Alan

I thought the earliest solid wall engine block examples in September 1967 were 10 stud / 1 bolt engines all in the 12H/199/xxxx number series with twin carbs Alan. This number range was still being used in 1969 so did the MG 1300's go to 9 stud (Presumably in a different number series?) for short time and then revert back to 10 + 1? If they were 9 stud from the outset then presumably the 10+1 units were only used in Riley Kestrels as the 1300GT wasn't introduced until 1968? You may recall I have a very low number thin flange solid wall 10+1 September 1967 engine with close ratio gearbox in the shed. Seems strange they would go to the trouble of giving you a large valve head, high compression pistons and a close ratio box and only fit a single HS4? Can't say I've ever seen an MG with a single HS4 so must be rare. Interestingly my 'Intereurope' 1100/1300 manual states in the carburettor section - 'the suction advance pipe (not fitted to early 1275cc engines)'. Which rather implies the very early examples employing a downrated Cooper block also used 23D distributors... Probably a Red Herring but it all helps to make things interesting, if as clear as mud!

Roger


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Hello Roger, thanks for your interest. I'm more than happy to answer your question and yes you have a very early 12H engine is correct. I'm going to write up what we know about the ADO16 timeline after David Rachael and some others agree sequence :lol:

The above needs to be written up as so many changes to engines were made over a short period. The story and changes made to the ADO16 is more interesting than the Mini Cooper changes in my opinion :D :D

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Posts: 98
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Supersonic wrote:
Hello Roger, thanks for your interest. I'm more than happy to answer your question and yes you have a very early 12H engine is correct. I'm going to write up what we know about the ADO16 timeline after David Rachael and some others agree sequence :lol:

The above needs to be written up as so many changes to engines were made over a short period. The story and changes made to the ADO16 is more interesting than the Mini Cooper changes in my opinion :D :D

Alan


It certainly is complicated, whilst the Mark I versions were in production the 1275cc power plant became available and was offered as an optional extra for the Vanden Plas, Riley and MG. The engine was designated 12G, had 8.8:1 compression, single HS4 carb and a 3.44:1 diff on the earliest versions although this was changed to 3.65:1 at some point! The cars also had a 1275 boot lid badge.....not many were sold, and in the USA it was the MG Sports Sedan.

October 1967 saw the Mark II bodyshell launched at Earls Court and the 1275cc optional extra was dropped. Rather a 1300 model became available with the engine designated 12H....it all seemed quite simple, models were now either 1100 Mark II or simply 1300, so for example you could buy the MG 1100 Mark II or an MG 1300. The car still had the 9-stud 8.8:1 compression head but with twin HS2 carbs and final drive was now 3.65:1......in the case of the MG the interior had been revised, in particular the head lining, door cards and seats, AND for the UK market a 2-door was now also available. Significantly, the strip speedo was maintained. The exterior had a 1300 boot lid badge, and again not many were sold due to a lack of supply more than anything else.

October 1968 saw the MG 1300 Mark II launched; another revised interior with 3 circular dials and the same engine that the GT saw - 11-stud 9.75:1 cylinder head and now a side exit twin box exhaust system.....some cars having an lcb as well. The bootlid kept the 1300 badge but II appeared next to the MG Octagon.

There were other details one could note but the truth is the ADO16 models were constantly being revised in some way or another......and we now know that although a change should sometimes have occurred, existing parts stock could mean anything could be fitted!

The advertised car looks correct to me - apart from the washer bottle which would have been a small round Tudor bottle and the electric motor is clearly an addition.

I hope I've made no errors Alan :lol: :lol: :lol: it's not easy keeping track of what BMC were doing!

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David Rachel

1968 MG 1300 Saloon Connaught Green
1972 Triumph 2.5 PI Estate Royal Blue
1978 Carlight Casetta Caravan
http://carlightrestoration.blogspot.co.uk
1995 Lada Riva 1.5 Estate Cherry


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Location: Dorset
Thanks for the replies folks. This subject was actually covered earlier is a long running thread entitled '1300GT'. The trouble is today's correspondence doesn't now square with the conclusion on page 24 of that thread.. My 12H/199/xxx 10 stud, 1 bolt, 9.75:1 compression ratio engine was then quoted as September 1967 example so is there actually a 12 month discrepancy in that conclusion?


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:52 am 
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Posts: 923
dodge44 wrote:
Thanks for the replies folks. This subject was actually covered earlier is a long running thread entitled '1300GT'. The trouble is today's correspondence doesn't now square with the conclusion on page 24 of that thread.. My 12H/199/xxx 10 stud, 1 bolt, 9.75:1 compression ratio engine was then quoted as September 1967 example so is there actually a 12 month discrepancy in that conclusion?


Roger, I've an approximate timeline written up somewhere that I will dig out and write up. I would agree that engine number is a very early 70 BHP engine and September would be right, I have one October 1967. I said the Mk2 was built from September 1967. However, the 1275cc unit was used in the ADO16 Mk1 1100 from March 1967. In this early period three engines were used before the 12H/199/xxxx 70 BHP engine was introduced.

I will start a thread on this subject so as not to be hogging this seen for sale thread :D

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:37 am 
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Location: High Wycombe, UK
dodge44 wrote:
Thanks for the replies folks. This subject was actually covered earlier is a long running thread entitled '1300GT'. The trouble is today's correspondence doesn't now square with the conclusion on page 24 of that thread.. My 12H/199/xxx 10 stud, 1 bolt, 9.75:1 compression ratio engine was then quoted as September 1967 example so is there actually a 12 month discrepancy in that conclusion?


I can only comment on the ADO16 use of the 11-stud head (10 stud , 1 bolt as you correctly point out ;) ) ....both the MG and the Riley had this in September 1968 and not before, whilst the Austin Morris 1300 GT's were announced on the 1st October 1969 although not actually revealed until the Earls Court show later in the month. Whilst what I wrote for the MG and other variants is also spot on If you head is 1967 then it's not ADO16.....are you certain it wasn't added to the engine at a later date?

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David Rachel

1968 MG 1300 Saloon Connaught Green
1972 Triumph 2.5 PI Estate Royal Blue
1978 Carlight Casetta Caravan
http://carlightrestoration.blogspot.co.uk
1995 Lada Riva 1.5 Estate Cherry


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:57 pm 
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I've started a thread ADO16 1275 Engines if anyone is interested :lol: :lol:

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: seen for sale
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Posts: 768
Location: Hiding From The Dog...
A nice pair of '65s:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-1100-M ... 2238106980
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232238106980?ul_noapp=true


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